Is "Dragging the Club" Back Okay?

[rwh]

For my Swinging Procedure, I'm having a lot of success "dragging" the club back at start up. I use the Classic (Mid-Body Hands) Address. The bend in the Left Wrist actually increases and the Right Wrist arches. When the Wrist conditions reverse, I'm feeling a ton of Lag that I haven't previously experienced -- a much more satisfying and "heavier" feeling that I'm better able to drag back down through the ball.

This "seems as if" it should be a good thing, but I can't locate where the book speaks to the technique. Am I on the road to ruin or is this "drag back" technique acceptable?

[FL-John]

rwh:

At least as far as set-up, Homer always said that mid-body hands (Standard "Classic" address) was well suited for swingers. I personally like this address when swinging as for me, like yourself, I get the feeling of PP#3 lag loading at the top. The only thing to monitor when dragging the club back is to not allow your shoulders to perform a shoulder turn takeaway in which the club would come inside/under the plane going back.

FL-John

[Yoda]

For my Swinging Procedure, I'm having a lot of success "dragging" the club back at start up. I use the Classic (Mid-Body Hands) Address. The bend in the Left Wrist actually increases and the Right Wrist arches. When the Wrist conditions reverse, I'm feeling a ton of Lag that I haven't previously experienced -- a much more satisfying and "heavier" feeling that I'm better able to drag back down through the ball.

This "seems as if" it should be a good thing, but I can't locate where the book speaks to the technique. Am I on the road to ruin or is this "drag back" technique acceptable?

This is absolutely correct, Bob. Homer discussed this move extensively during his January 1982 Masters Class, a discussion I am delighted to have on tape and which I'll share with this Forum as soon as that capability is 'up.' Meanwhile, let this summary suffice:

In the Lagging Clubhead Takeaway you can let the Clubhead gradually overtake the Hands (Random Sweep Loading per 10-22-B) or you can let the Hands lead literally all the way to the Top (where the Pivot reverses the Motion and Snap Loads the Club into its Downstroke alignments per 10-22-C). This procedure is not specifically addressed in published editions of TGM, but it is the "Swinging Motion" to be set up at Address per 7-9 (on page 98 of the 6th edition).

The Good News is that Homer Kelley sought to codify this procedure in his still unpublished 7th Edition. Get your book and make the following revisions:

Page 161, 10-9-A, paragraph 2, add: "This arrangement encourages a Lagging Clubhead Takeaway for Lag Loading per 7-19-3 and 7-20."

Page 162, 10-9-B, paragraph 2, add: "This arrangement encourages a Non-Lagging Clubhead Takeaway for Lag Loading per 7-19-1 and 7-20."

Yes, even after 42 years of research and publication, his was still a 'work in progress.' And "Never," said he, "did I feel I was more than a week away from finishing."

Sobering words for those of us engaged in the building of this site!

[EdZ]

There is a lot of merit to the 'drag back' approach IMO. A lot of the old timers used it when I was growing up, and I wish I hadn't dismissed it as 'old style' back then. There are still a lot of good players using it at my old 'home course' of Harding Park. I recall Brian mentioning a mentor of his using this approach back in his earlier days of teaching. A sure fire way to load the power package and make sure you can 'deliver' it. Certainly worth experimenting with if you tend to come inside too quickly, or if you 'roll' too much on takeaway. Mid body hands make at least a bit of 'drag' a built in procedure.

[rwh]

Originally Posted by rwh

For my Swinging Procedure, I'm having a lot of success "dragging" the club back at start up. I use the Classic (Mid-Body Hands) Address. The bend in the Left Wrist actually increases and the Right Wrist arches. When the Wrist conditions reverse, I'm feeling a ton of Lag that I haven't previously experienced -- a much more satisfying and "heavier" feeling that I'm better able to drag back down through the ball. This "seems as if" it should be a good thing, but I can't locate where the book speaks to the technique. Am I on the road to ruin or is this "drag back" technique acceptable?

This is absolutely correct, Bob. Homer discussed this move extensively during his January 1982 Masters Class, a discussion I am delighted to have on tape and which I'll share with this Forum as soon as that capability is 'up.' Meanwhile, let this summary suffice:

In the Lagging Clubhead Takeaway you can let the Clubhead gradually overtake the Hands (Random Sweep Loading per 10-22-B) or you can let the Hands lead literally all the way to the Top (where the Pivot reverses the Motion and Snap Loads the Club into its Downstroke alignments per 10-22-C). This procedure is not specifically addressed in published editions of TGM, but it is the "Swinging Motion" to be set up at Address per 7-9 (on page 98 of the 6th edition).

The Good News is that Homer Kelley sought to codify this procedure in his still unpublished 7th Edition. Get your book and make the following revisions:

Page 161, 10-9-A, paragraph 2, add: "This arrangement encourages a Lagging Clubhead Takeaway for Lag Loading per 7-19-3 and 7-20."

Page 162, 10-9-B, paragraph 2, add: "This arrangement encourages a Non-Lagging Clubhead Takeaway for Lag Loading per 7-19-1 and 7-20."

Yes, even after 42 years of research and publication, his was still a 'work in progress.' And "Never," said he, "did I feel I was more than a week away from finishing."

Sobering words for those of us engaged in the building of this site!

Your answer simplifies the concept of Loading for me. Thank you.
I feel the same way about my swing -- I'm only a week away!

[rwh]

There is a lot of merit to the 'drag back' approach IMO. A lot of the old timers used it when I was growing up, and I wish I hadn't dismissed it as 'old style' back then. There are still a lot of good players using it at my old 'home course' of Harding Park. I recall Brian mentioning a mentor of his using this approach back in his earlier days of teaching. A sure fire way to load the power package and make sure you can 'deliver' it. Certainly worth experimenting with if you tend to come inside too quickly, or if you 'roll' too much on takeaway. Mid body hands make at least a bit of 'drag' a built in procedure.

Thanks, Ed. I think Brian did have that information on one of his videos [thank you, Brian -- it finally worked its way out of my Incubator!).

There is a symmetry to "drag it up -- drag it down" that appeals to me.

[Yoda]

There is a symmetry to "drag it up -- drag it down" that appeals to me.

That appealing symmetry is the essence of the Golf Stroke -- The Hands Lead the Clubhead. In The Golfing Machine...we call it The Clubhead Lag.

[EdZ]

Does the drag back/through approach require angled hinging? It certainly makes it easy to feel it.

[swingingfrank]

Originally Posted by rwh

There is a symmetry to "drag it up -- drag it down" that appeals to me.

That appealing symmetry is the essence of the Golf Stroke -- The Hands Lead the Clubhead. In The Golfing Machine...we call it The Clubhead Lag.

Is this just for swingers?
Edit:nevermind,sw the other thred.Thanks Yoda.

[Yoda]

Does the drag back/through approach require angled hinging? It certainly makes it easy to feel it.

The Lagging Clubhead Takeaway (Unpublished 7th Edition 10-9-A) coupled with its natural counterpart, Drag Loading (10-19-C) is a Swinging procedure. And the Throw-Out Action of Centrifugal Force is most compatible with Horizontal Hinge Action. That said, you are correct in that, since the Leading Left Wrist tends to delay its Start Up Swivel (Left Wrist palm down to the Plane), it tends to promote an Angled Hinge Action (No Roll Feel with the Left Wrist remaining Vertical to the Plane).

If the natural Horizontal Hinge Action of Throw-Out Action (Centrifugal Force) is replaced with the natural Angled Hinge Action of Drive-Out Action (Muscular Thrust), then compensations must be made. A recently published video of TGM GSED Greg McHatton on www.brianmanzella.com at http://www.grumpygolf.com/golf_videos.htm illustrates beautifully this action, together with the required compensations.