Shoulder(s) In Relation To Plane...

[HoganFan]

...hi all, I don't have my book w/me at work, so can't reference. But something just occured to me. Should the trail (r) shoulder move on plane (on the downswing)? If yes, doesn't that mean that the (r) shoulder would move more -how to describe this- sort of, "around" the body, so to speak, instead of say, "down" towards the ground and under the plane?

[tongzilla]

The Right Shoulder should move toward Impact on the preselected Downstroke Clubshaft Plane. If it can't quite reach that Plane, then it's better to use a steeper Plane.

In other words, the Right Shoulder moves On Plane -- downward, outward and forward.

[Bigwill]

...hi all, I don't have my book w/me at work, so can't reference. But something just occured to me. Should the trail (r) shoulder move on plane (on the downswing)? If yes, doesn't that mean that the (r) shoulder would move more -how to describe this- sort of, "around" the body, so to speak, instead of say, "down" towards the ground and under the plane?

I know what you're talking about. In my swing, my right shoulder tends to move straight down. So when I got in front of a mirror to practice moving it down plane, it (the right shoulder) felt to me as if it were moving more forward than down. If you tend to get under plane with the shoulder, like me, then an on-plane right shoulder may feel like it's going more out and around. It's all about perception and perspective.

[mattsdad]

The sequence of Fred Couples posted by Annikan Skywalker shows nicely how the trail shoulder moves down the selected plane. See http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=2010

Whether it feels more "around" than "down" depends on your tendencies. In my case, I need to "feel" it going down.

[HoganFan]

If you tend to get under plane with the shoulder, like me, then an on-plane right shoulder may feel like it's going more out and around. It's all about perception and perspective.

I think you hit the nail on the head for me, Bigwill.

[comdpa]

...hi all, I don't have my book w/me at work, so can't reference. But something just occured to me. Should the trail (r) shoulder move on plane (on the downswing)? If yes, doesn't that mean that the (r) shoulder would move more -how to describe this- sort of, "around" the body, so to speak, instead of say, "down" towards the ground and under the plane?

What the golf world has not realised so far is that the shoulder turns one way on the backstroke and another on the downstroke.

One pro told me before: "Keep it simple, loose grip, turn back and turn through and square up at impact." I was on the verge of telling him that if it were true, the average handicap should be 5 because that is what everyone is trying to do.

Per 10-13-A, the standard shoulder turn, this is a dual application of the Flat Backstroke (as flat as possible) and On Plane Downstroke Shoulder Turn.

The proper downstroke shoulder motion is facilitated by a hip slide which tilts the axis of the shoulders. Lets take a look at some references.

Per 2-L #2 "a rotating motion will pass through a given point if the axis is tilted properly..."

Per 7-14 "Not otherwise could the weight be shifted and the Shoulder Turn Axis be tilted without moving the head."...which maintains our first essential, the stationary head per 2-0-A-1.

Per 2-H "On Plane" Right Shoulder Motion is possible only by tilting its axis - the spine.

The above references highlight the downstroke shoulder motion as inseparable from a hip slide producing axis tilt.

Per 2-N-0 "There must be an Underhand Pitch motion and Feel. If there isn't you are "Roundhousing" - lifting the Hands (Flat Shoulder Turn) and / or the Clubhead (steering) "Off Line" during the Start Down. This includes the Butt of the Club also.

Per 2-L #2 "a rotating motion will pass through a given point if the axis is tilted properly..."

Per 7-13 "Keep that Right Shoulder not only "back" but also "down" (On Plane), or you will "run out out of Right Arm" before the Hands reach Impact Position - an automatic Throwaway."

These references highlight the true function of the shoulders as well as the importance of it.

Finally take a look at pictures 9-1-7 to 9-1-12.
Notice how Diane's right shoulder is working "under the left". Sure is different from what we have been told to turn back and through!

These references and the pictures by Annikan will unlock the mystery that surrounds 6-M-1 (Downstroke Sequence) for many. Too many folks start off in the proper sequence UNTIL they get to the shoulders part and then they spin out (around) instead of getting the right shoulder to move downplane which makes it go Down then Out and then Forward.

An offplane shoulder motion on the downstroke results in a roundhouse per 2-N-0 and violation of the 3rd imperative, a straight plane line per 2-0-B-3.

[nevermind]

What was the preselected Downstroke Clubshaft Plane in the Freddy sequence? How can the shoulder move down on the preselected Downstroke Clubshaft Plane unless that is the Turned Shoulder Plane? Say you were going to shift the sweetspot down from the Turned Shoulder Plane to the Elbow Plane, should your goal be to also shift the shoulder?

[Yoda]

One pro told me before: "Keep it simple, loose grip, turn back and turn through and square up at impact." I was on the verge of telling him that if it were true, the average handicap should be 5 because that is what everyone is trying to do.

Justin -- the Singapore Slinger -- is getting seriously good. Has anybody else noticed? Or is it just me?

[comdpa]

Justin -- the Singapore Slinger -- is getting seriously good. Has anybody else noticed? Or is it just me?

Thank you for the gracious words..."and I press on toward the high calling..."

[Yoda]

What was the preselected Downstroke Clubshaft Plane in the Freddy sequence? How can the shoulder move down on the preselected Downstroke Clubshaft Plane unless that is the Turned Shoulder Plane? Say you were going to shift the sweetspot down from the Turned Shoulder Plane to the Elbow Plane, should your goal be to also shift the shoulder?

Freddy pre-selects nothing.

Never has.

Never will.

Freddy...

Is.

Freddy picks the Club straight up with his Right Forearm and then slams it into the back of the Ball so hard he says, "I feel I can snap the clubhead off the end of the shaft."

From the ultimate Mechanic, Homer Kelley:

"Mechanics are peanuts without the Clubhead Lag."