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Old 03-21-2005, 10:06 PM
lagster lagster is offline
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COIL
TGM does not use the term COIL or X FACTOR, yet both terms are commonly used in golf instruction vernacular.

Some swings... VJ Singh, Tom Weiskopf ... appear to coil on the backswing. Some swings... Nicklaus, Snead... appear to have little coil on the backswing. The Nicklaus type coils during the transition, or Start Down, if there is one.

The pictures in TGM... such as the one in 9-2-6, appear to have little backswing coil. I believe this type of position may be easier on the body, especially those with lower back problems. Sam Snead played for a long time!

What is your take on this subject?
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Old 03-21-2005, 11:19 PM
EdZ EdZ is offline
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while coil 'can' be beneficial in terms of power, the real issue is removal of 'slack', which can be done without muscular tension - like Snead did.

The links of the chain must move in the right order, and coil helps 'ensure' that order - it is the sequence, and resulting leverage, that give the power, not the muscle tension
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Old 03-22-2005, 11:21 AM
lagster lagster is offline
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Originally Posted by EdZ
while coil 'can' be beneficial in terms of power, the real issue is removal of 'slack', which can be done without muscular tension - like Snead did.

The links of the chain must move in the right order, and coil helps 'ensure' that order - it is the sequence, and resulting leverage, that give the power, not the muscle tension
EdZ,

Sam Snead was a very long hitter. So... a no coil type swing like his can obviously produce great power. Bobby Jones, I believe, also had a huge hip turn, but was very long.

How much muscle TENSION do you think one should be aware of during a sound swing(Stroke), if any? The COILERS (X-Factor) seem to FEEL VERY WOUND UP, and have a type of Tension. The NON-COILERS seem to feel very little of this TENSION (Snead).
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Old 03-22-2005, 12:04 PM
EdZ EdZ is offline
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I'm not saying that tension is required, only that it can help ensure proper sequence - which leads to power - no 'slack in the train'. Personally, I am more like Snead, I don't feel, nor aim for, tension. I happen to be very flexible however. If you unwind properly from the ground up, without 'slack', you don't need the tension - but if you aren't able to do that, the tension will help you get that 'train' on track
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Old 03-22-2005, 12:40 PM
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BerntR BerntR is offline
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Originally Posted by lagster
EdZ,

Sam Snead was a very long hitter. So... a no coil type swing like his can obviously produce great power. Bobby Jones, I believe, also had a huge hip turn, but was very long.

How much muscle TENSION do you think one should be aware of during a sound swing(Stroke), if any? The COILERS (X-Factor) seem to FEEL VERY WOUND UP, and have a type of Tension. The NON-COILERS seem to feel very little of this TENSION (Snead).
Apart from gravity, muscular work is the only way of speeding up the golf club. And the only thing muscles can do is contract.

The thing is, without any tension in these contractions very little work is actually done. There must be tension - but only in the right muscles at the right time. And: That a move feels relaxed doesnt' mean that it is not tense in the right places.

I bet even Sam Snead held his breath the split seconds of release and impact. Hint: Try to breath out during release and impact - to get a feel for a "low tension" golf swing. Believe me, it's not what you want.

Coiling:

During coiling, some of the muscles most important to golf are stretched. This means that they can do a larger contraction before they are ... eh ... totally contracted.

That's one reason for creating a lag between shoulders and hip in the down swing. To give the core muscles a certain distance they can contract.

But it doesn't neccesary mean that they are optimally loaded for max force.

So there's no need to overdo it.

Besides the muscles are capable of pulling their levers harder in more neutral positions than in the extreme positions (extreme = maximal stretched / maximal contracted). So a very open hip at impact doesn't neccesary strenghten the pivot.

Back to tension:

Those muscle fibres that are doing the work cannot become to tense during the split second they are contracting - provided you want max force. The more tense the harder they work - the harder they work the more tense they are. To produce max power you want them to fire on all fibers as often as possible (which is very, very very often). But you need to give them some load to work on to reach that state.

On the other hand every muscle in the body has antagonistic conterparts - muscles that work in the opposite direction - when they work at all. The ones that are producing the backswing certainly cannot do much good on the down swing. Any tension here during down swing will limit the power. And this is the kind of tension that is not velcome.

How to create tension (loading):

If the club feels like a ton during release and through impact it indicates that you've managed to maintain - or produce - tension.

If the club feels lighter from the top and heavier later on there are some muscular float loading going on.

If the weight feels the same throughout the down swing you've probably completed the loading at the top /end or during the transision move.

What about turning back over a resisting lower body? IMO, that may create unneccesary tension in the antagonists - that may sustain in the downswing. This back swing tensity may influence balance and rhythm as well.

I think it's far better to shift and turn the lower body in the downswing "agaist a resisting upper body" Which brings me back to float loading.

There are probaly some muscles that has a stabilising role in the golf swing where some degree of tension is welcome all the way.

My favorite loading is a Fred Couples kind of type - almost totally relaxed on top - and then just increase the effort for max tension towards impact. Max tension in the right muscle fibers.

In this regard, "maintain the lag" also means maintain the muscle tension.
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Old 03-22-2005, 01:05 PM
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Snead Tells It Like It Is!
We'll have a video clip up soon of Sam Snead doing a private clinic. In it, he describes many of the sensations being discussed in this thread. Here's my favorite line, delivered as he addresses the ball and proceeds to swing, talking and timing the climactic move through Impact:

"Oh, baby [Waggle]...I'm going to treat you gently [Backstroke]...and then POW!!! [Impact]...you jump on it [Finish]!
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Old 03-23-2005, 10:52 AM
lagster lagster is offline
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Some interesting information from BerntR!!

People seem to have all different levels of BODY AWARENESS. Some people seem to like to have certain sensations, or FEELS concerning their MUSCLES and Muscle Tension or contraction. If any of you have Steve Elkington's book... you will read several passages describing his feels of muscle tension etc., during different parts of his swing.
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