Mid body hands clubface alignment

[jim_0068]

if you setup with a square stance and square shoulders and take your grip at impact fix and move them to mid body the face will appear closed.

If you have them foward of mid body the face can be "less closed." I personally do not use mid-body hands, it is too far "back." I use something in between impact fix and mid body and thus my face doesn't look so closed.

[nevermind]

if you setup with a square stance and square shoulders and take your grip at impact fix and move them to mid body the face will appear closed.

Yeah, IF you make no attempt to manipulate it square. Why shouldn't we?

[golfbulldog]

Yeah, IF you make no attempt to manipulate it square. Why shouldn't we?

The clubface alignment at fix and mid-body hands can only the same if the wrist is no longer vertical at adjusted address. It is ideally vertical at impact and advisedly vertical at address - by my reading of the book.

Keeping wrist vertical and moving from impact fix to mid-body always moves the clubface more closed. Why do you want to manipulate wrist condition at adjusted address to keep the alignment look "normal" ? If your manipulation is consistent then it won't matter but most manipulations ( malalignments) are advised against in TGM, at least the way I read the book. Yes you can do what you like, there are 3 trillion swings etc... but why chose a less efficient alignment to start your swing from??? It surely means that you are compensating from the start of your swing?

[nevermind]

I find it entirely possible to keep the left wrist level when moving the hands from fix to mid body, whilst keeping the clubface square or even open to the plane line. I do that by not only bending the left wrist but also turning it. Now even if I'm wrong and that isn't the case, I still don't see it as a problem worth worrying about. Adjusted address is a compensation, we have many alignments that we don't want anywhere near impact, yet it works just fine. We start with a bent left wrist and make it flat, why not also make it level (not that I think that would be neccessary)? How much of an impact could that possibly have on ball flight and repeatability? I reckon if a golfer doesn't like the look of a closed clubface at adjusted address, so be it. Take the grip at Fix and manipulate the face square as they move their hands to mid body. JMHO. Maybe we should all just start from Fix and avoid any possible complications/manipulations/malalignments...

[jim_0068]

I find it entirely possible to keep the left wrist level when moving the hands from fix to mid body, whilst keeping the clubface square or even open to the plane line. I do that by not only bending the left wrist but also turning it. Now even if I'm wrong and that isn't the case, I still don't see it as a problem worth worrying about. Adjusted address is a compensation, we have many alignments that we don't want anywhere near impact, yet it works just fine. We start with a bent left wrist and make it flat, why not also make it level (not that I think that would be neccessary)? How much of an impact could that possibly have on ball flight and repeatability? I reckon if a golfer doesn't like the look of a closed clubface at adjusted address, so be it. Take the grip at Fix and manipulate the face square as they move their hands to mid body. JMHO. Maybe we should all just start from Fix and avoid any possible complications/manipulations/malalignments...

It's not a problem, but your left wrist isn't vertical if you have allowed it to turn at the setup. That's why you can keep it square or even open.

Also i don't suggest impact fix for swingers. Not enough rythym in the takeaway. Thats why some form of dragaway is better imo

[Daryl]

IMO it is important to take your grip in impact fix. Doing otherwise will effect the relationship between the sweetspot plane and shaft plane with its known problems (shank, and consistency). I think we all agree.

Depending on ball placement, adjusted address can look different. If you move the ball back as each club shortens, then your hands may look centered for each club. If you use one ball location and move your right foot farther apart for longer clubs, then your shaft will look forward leaning as the clubs get shorter and less as the clubs get longer.

The adjusted address position, as accomplished by keeping the leading edge square, moving the hands back and turning and bending the left wrist is the way I prefer. Already, my hands are positioned so that with a little extensor action, the wedges are re-established and the right forearm fans in the takeaway. I'm going to turn my hands anyway. Rhythm is started for the backswing. I mean that there is less of the feel that I’m placing the club on the backswing path and more of the feeling that I’m swinging the club.

Whether the leading edge is open or square at impact somewhat eludes me. I’ve been more successful with the leading edge more square than open. IMHO it’s because the hands are still moving forward and down through impact. The clubshaft, hands and clubhead are moving together as a unit. Hmm?.. I don’t know.

[EdZ]

.. but why chose a less efficient alignment to start your swing from??? It surely means that you are compensating from the start of your swing?

Mid-body hands is an efficient alignment for a number of reasons, and not a compensation. The core reason is that it allows you to get and stay on plane far simpler than beginning at impact fix, helps with the feel of the right forearm, and sets the hands in the proper relationship to the shoulder line and chest. Low point being under the ground is another key factor. Despite the illusion, it is anatomically, physically, and geometrically a proper procedure.

[golfbulldog]

Mid-body hands is an efficient alignment for a number of reasons, and not a compensation. The core reason is that it allows you to get and stay on plane far simpler than beginning at impact fix, helps with the feel of the right forearm, and sets the hands in the proper relationship to the shoulder line and chest. Low point being under the ground is another key factor. Despite the illusion, it is anatomically, physically, and geometrically a proper procedure.

I think that you may have misunderstood my statement.

My comments regarding "compensation" were made regarding my assessment of those who adopt mid-body hands and keep the clubface at its impact fix alignment. They have to "manipulate" (turn) the wrist alignment to achieve this rather than allow clubface to take on an alignment at mid body hands which was more closed than impact fix ( which maintains wrist vertical).

This is the point that Brian Manzella's recent video tutorial illustrates very nicely and seems very natural for mid-body hands and swinging . But did Homer mention this ? Did he overlook it or consider it and think it unimportant?

If you adopt closed clubface at adjusted address and hit it straight is this a sign of a non-flippy motion ? Forward leaning shaft etc??

[Mathew]

There is no precision in a grip unless you assume it in the impact condition with a clubface position to match a particular hinge action. Only then do you go back to midbody hands and the face shall be where the face shall be.....

[Vandal]

I think that you may have misunderstood my statement.

My comments regarding "compensation" were made regarding my assessment of those who adopt mid-body hands and keep the clubface at its impact fix alignment. They have to "manipulate" (turn) the wrist alignment to achieve this rather than allow clubface to take on an alignment at mid body hands which was more closed than impact fix ( which maintains wrist vertical).

This is the point that Brian Manzella's recent video tutorial illustrates very nicely and seems very natural for mid-body hands and swinging . But did Homer mention this ? Did he overlook it or consider it and think it unimportant?

If you adopt closed clubface at adjusted address and hit it straight is this a sign of a non-flippy motion ? Forward leaning shaft etc??

If there is one main issue with TGM that drives me insane I believe it is this. Between Chuck, Yoda and Brian it seems they are each teaching a different way to grip and address the club. Brian teaches his "neutral" grip and a square face at address with mid-body hands. Chuck's has the hands at a "special" position and the face is slightly open (for a swinger). Now I'm seeing a mid-body hands and a closed face here. So which is it? Or is it another variation that the player can pick and choose which one works best?