Hey guys...I finally bought TGM book. I have been reading it like crazy and my computer is plum full!!
My question is about the basic motion. I have been hitting two full buckets at the driving range with my basic motion. I might be hitting them too hard as they go 15 to 20 yards. I'm trying to build a swinging stroke, should I use the adjusted address or impact fix?? Is Jeff Hull & Yoda using hitting or swinging in the video on basic motion. To me they have a flat left wrist from beginning to end...am I seeing this correctly??
If I use my right arm thru impact & angled hinging as a hitter when using the swingers takeawy, should I just go with the flow and try to be a hitter vs. a swinger? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
You may use any address you desire. The Golfing Machine gives us options. However, adjusted address is more useful for swinging. And impact fix address is more useful for hitting.
What club are you using for your basic motion ? A short iron is reccomended. I assume since you have the book you that you are using section 12-5-1. Remember to zero out Accumulator #3. I like gripping the club in the cup of my left hand for this. I think Tommy T preferred to uncock the left wrist. It's preference. I think the reason is because you will only use your basic power package with only arm accumulators. Hand pressure points, but only arm accumulators. Basically you are using your flying wedges.
Yes, Jeff Hull and Yoda both have flat left wrists throughout their basic motion. Go and look at number 11 in section 12-5-1. I think that Jeff Hull is swinging due to the horizontal hinging, and Yoda is hitting. Yoda actually has a post of both his basic and acquired motions from that video.
So you are torn between hitting and swinging. Before you hit another ball go to 6-H-0. The big one for me that helped me really see the difference was: active left wrist vs. active right elbow. Do not neglect pressure point #2 if you are swinging. I'm pretty sure somewhere in the book Homer recomends to learn swinging first, then hitting. For me that was not the best route. I thought I was swinging for the longest time until I realized that I was trying to 'swing hard.' Swinging should be efforeless power, instead of powerless effort. Go to Tommy T's video on hitting vs. swinging. I still like to hit short shots, but I can swing them also. I think proper hinging is critical. You must know the difference between all 3 hinge actions and be able to perform each one.
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"Golf is not a subject but a motor skill which can only be learned and not taught." - Michael Hebron
"The Body, Arms and Hands have specific assignments during the Golf Stroke, and they must be coordinated into one efficient motion." - Lynn Blake
I have always and this may be incorrect, but understood that Basic Motion is best started from impact fix. The real difference for the swinger or hitter in this motion is 'Is the Left Arm' or the 'Right Arm' powering the motion?
Starting at Impact Fix, at least makes the motion 'Smipler' to start with. The Basic Motion should be able to be performed with either hand by itself. This when able to be done gives the golfer IMO the best understanding of the mechanics.
There should be no swivel on the back stroke or foward stroke, the stroke distance is only about 2 feet in either direction.
Key for me was PP#1. Focusing on PP#1 vs the ball and clubhead has allowed me to be successful. When I first did this be hit swinging or hitting, I was allowing separation at PP#1 when I had a ball in front of me. Poor results.
The hinging used for either swinging or hitting, you should be able to perform all three. Learning to perform all three at this stage makes it easier as you progress.
It sounds as if you are having trouble using the Left Arm for swinging.
If you set up at adjusted address, the swinger position, you need to flatten the left wrist and get the right wrist bent. Either motion requires you to start with your hands, so left for swinging and right for hitting.
Hope this helps.
It would be helpful to me and maybe others if they would list how far the distance is for their basic motion with a wedge and say a 7 iron. This assumes basic motion is about 2 feet in each direction, after that you enter acquired motion, which brings other components into play.
Knight - you said something that I didn't know before, but its in the book like you said. #11 of 12-5-1, So this means it must be flat at the address, start-up, backswing, downswing....etc?
I have been trying to swing with a set-up like, I guess one would use on a full shot. I would have a bend left wrist & a flat right wrist, then I would try to flatten the left and bend the right while trying to feel and maintain my pressure points, mainly #1 & #3. Then, this is where my problems have occured, or should I say, lack of complete understanding and mastery.
Knight, do we start from impact fix, like Martee says...it seems that doing it this way is much easier. Thanks again guys...I'm going to read and study some more!
Actually, when I set up for basic motion with my left palm on the front of the grip the left wrist is already flat. I think this happens because of the forward leaning shaft(if the shaft is vertical at address the left wrist will bend, but this is awkward, I prefer to use the club according to it's design). So, hit or swing, my wrists do not change. The left is locked and the right is frozen. If I allow my right wrist to bend this arches the left wrist....not good.
Trane, what grip are you using for basic motion ? Do you have the heel of your left hand on the top ? Are you eliminating pivot, shoulder turn, and accumulator #3 ? Just like it says: "This stage concerns mainly the basic body positions and the basic power package component alignments and arm motion power accumulators." Homer even spells it out for us with that paragraph. Then he says the same exact thing with the list. This is how I see that paragraph as a summary of the items in the list: (referring to the numbers in the list) 9 and 12 moves 14 and 15. It is a very specific combination. You said you focus on pressure points #1 and #3. #1 is not on the list, only power accumulator #1. So the right arm power only funnels through pressure point #3.
This is just my interpretation. I would really like this to be either confirmed or corrected.
Basically, what I am trying to say is there are only 2 power accumulators and 2 pressure points listed. Hitting or swinging. No power from the hands, only pressure. After feeling some nice compressions, and even a little shaft flex with my 7 iron on hitting strokes I am getting familiar with my power package as a whole. When I started to think about stage 2 the line that really jumped out at me was "This stage introduces body motion and the alignments and relations of the hand action power accumulators of the power package." This is how I found power accumulator #2. I never understood wrist cock and uncock. Now I can see why it is velocity power. It really whips that clubhead down, then transfers to wrist roll. The Jeff Hull videos for me were extremely helpful. Actually having a professional, who practices instead of trains this stuff still is one of the most helpful things for me. I think I am gonna watch them right now.
My setup on a full shot is different than a chip shot. I use a more narrow stance
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"Golf is not a subject but a motor skill which can only be learned and not taught." - Michael Hebron
"The Body, Arms and Hands have specific assignments during the Golf Stroke, and they must be coordinated into one efficient motion." - Lynn Blake
Day 1 apprentice probably can't handle the myriad options available and needs to be told what to do - item by item - a master craftsman can appreciate the joy of options. As a day 3 apprentice this is was i have found i needed to be told to try and make it work - not sure if its right but....
12-5-1 BASIC MOTION ( by the book ! )
"2 feet in both directions
ZERO OUT THE PIVOT, shoulder turn and accumulator 3
Concerns body alignments ( ie. zone1) , power package component ALIGNMENTS ( ie. FLYING WEDGES ) and arm motion power accumulators ( # 1 and #4 )"
consequently:-
Here are two items which are not expressly identified in the 12-5-1 section
As swinging is so often associated with centrifugal force, flywheel and pivot it is hard to work out what to do when you try to swing BASIC MOTION but you are not allowed to pivot??
A key for me was realising that swinging is PULLING - and you can use pivot to pull OR the left arm
"10-3-D. PULL
The term "Pull" indicates that the Club is being accel¬erated by either Arm (1-F) but always with a Rope Handle procedure, per 2-K, 6-B-4 and 10-11-0. It is always a "Swing," per 10-19-C. (Study 7-1.) When used with a Major Basic Stroke, it can produce Full Power (10-11-0)."
ALSO read
"6-L-0. NON-PIVOT STROKE DELIVERY
In a "Non-Pivot Stroke" the Arm motion begins immediately and proceeds toward the Release Point as independently as possible of any incidental body motion. Monitor slow shots for "Clubhead Sag," i.e. dropping Below Plane in either direction. (See 2-N.) However, for a Zero Pivot Stroke, see 10-12-D. And be sure to locate the Ball well aft of normal to avoid "running out of Right Arm." "
12-5-1 mentions 10-3-A for the right elbow position but in making it happen i think that 10-3-D is the only way i can make a non-pivot pulling motion!
Maybe i just don't get it but i am sure i have read something from Yoda about this - just can't find the thread!
So my understanding of BASIC MOTION swinging is that as a non pivot stroke you have to move the ball back in the stance and your left arm ( without shoulder motion/turn) moves across the chest to power the PULL ( ie. swing)
BUT NOTE THAT PP2 and 3 are listed - there are to be sensed as passive pressure AND THAT PASSIVE PRESSURE SHOULD BE MAINTAINED.
In the video with Lynn and Ben Doyle - Ben talks about using the pivot to move the hands - this seems to be an extension of Homer's original BASIC MOTION to the "chip pitch". No harm in that as long as you distinguish it from the pivotless stroke that 12-5-1 requests.
"In the video with Lynn and Ben Doyle - Ben talks about using the pivot to move the hands - this seems to be an extension of Homer's original BASIC MOTION to the "chip pitch". No harm in that as long as you distinguish it from the pivotless stroke that 12-5-1 requests."
I saw that in the video & your assessment makes a lot of sense to me.
OK, I discovered with yall's help and the Yellow Book...I havn't had my Accumulator #3 zeroed out! I think I have had some pivot and shoulder turn as well. That's why owning the book is so very imprtant. To all out there reading these posts that don't own TGM book, I recommend it.
As for zeroing #3 Accumulator out, do you guys use the reverse wrist cock? or hold the club in the cup of the left hand?
Also, is a reverse wrist cock the same as "uncocked 4-B-3"?
I have been gripping the club under the left hand pad with level hand/wrist condition...another thing that has been wrong with my basic motion...not doing it per 12-5-1.
I'm trying to feel only these and trying to learn and follow the basic curriculum...SOLID guys and the ball isn't spinning to the right like it was before.
The feeling that I have with my PP is that I'm trying to bend my grip in half like your trying to break a pencil. Is this right? Nice lag and maintaining the desired wrist conditions thru the shot.
It would be helpful to me and maybe others if they would list how far the distance is for their basic motion with a wedge and say a 7 iron. This assumes basic motion is about 2 feet in each direction, after that you enter acquired motion, which brings other components into play.
I use my 60* wedge for all my practice. My basic motion goes 10 yards and my acquired motion is 40 yards.
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