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-   -   A Ben Doyle Lesson -- Part I / Tire Trouble (http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1129)

Yoda 06-23-2005 03:32 PM

Inside The Ropes
 
Great posts, Metallion and Jimmy. Thank you for these personal observations!

tongzilla 06-23-2005 06:28 PM

Excellent video! Ben never runs out of steam teaching! The following are my comments, with a few trivial questions...questions that may or may not deserve your time/effort answering...

Ben asks, “what’s the equivalent of the flat left wrist? The bent right wrist...”
Trivia: who’s the famous player who plays with a flat right wrist (and more importantly a ---- left wrist)?

When Ben says he is chipping, is he really chipping? Remember, a chip is a stroke with zero Accumulator #2.

Ben places a lot of emphasis on the big muscles moving the club, not the hands. So much so that it smells like the dreaded Pivot Controlled Hands (Position golf vs. Alignment, Physics vs. Geometry – see 5-0) golf, stroke he is teaching. A possible defence to this is that Ben is teaching Zone #1 (Pivot) first. When his student has mastered the Pivot, emphases will be more on Zone #3 (Hands). See 9-0. And oh, before you guys tell me, let me pre-empt your reponse: "Pivot Powered Hands Controlled Pivot"...

Notice how Ben teaches the student to set up to the ball. Ball location is referenced with the left heel, not the Low Point location of the left shoulder! And it looks like the “one inch behind left heel” procedure is recommended for all clubs. However, also notice he suggests that stance width changes with different clubs. How does this relate to Ball/Low Point school of thought? See 2-J and 2-N.

“Push the grass back with the club” says Ben when teaching how to take the club away. This resembles a ‘whirly’ type takeaway procedure, which is more compatible with which type of Stroke?

Ben talks about his “one third swivel” at the Follow Through in his chips and pitches. What type of Hinge Action (10-10) is he implying/teaching?

Jimmy 06-23-2005 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tongzilla
Ben places a lot of emphasis on the big muscles moving the club, not the hands. So much so that it smells like the dreaded Pivot Controlled Hands (Position golf vs. Alignment, Physics vs. Geometry – see 5-0) golf, stroke he is teaching. A possible defence to this is that Ben is teaching Zone #1 (Pivot) first. When his student has mastered the Pivot, emphases will be more on Zone #3 (Hands). See 9-0. And oh, before you guys tell me, let me pre-empt your reponse: "Pivot Powered Hands Controlled Pivot"...

I'll let someone with more knowledge answer your other questions since I, in no way, profess to know a great deal about TGM. However, I did ask Ben about this. If you notice, in the video, he also stresses that the hands are always aiming. My interpretation of the video, and also of what he told me when I asked, is that the pivot is providing the motion, but the hands are controlling the pivot because they are constantly aiming. The hands are saying, "Okay, pivot. Take me there".

"Adding", as Ben puts it, was the one thing that I have struggled with the most when trying to learn the stroke that Ben teaches. It looks so easy when he does it. I'm almost happy to see someone else (in the video) struggle with it. At least I know it isn't just me! :?

jim_0068 06-23-2005 11:38 PM

Quote:

Ben asks, “what’s the equivalent of the flat left wrist? The bent right wrist...”
Trivia: who’s the famous player who plays with a flat right wrist (and more importantly a ---- left wrist)?
Vijay Singh, + bonus answer is Phil M too. He doesn't play with as flat of a right wrist as Vijay, but its close. Oh and the "----" is "flat" :)

Quote:

When Ben says he is chipping, is he really chipping? Remember, a chip is a stroke with zero Accumulator #2.
I'm going no, it does seem he is getting some accumulator storage.

Quote:

Ben places a lot of emphasis on the big muscles moving the club, not the hands. So much so that it smells like the dreaded Pivot Controlled Hands (Position golf vs. Alignment, Physics vs. Geometry – see 5-0) golf, stroke he is teaching. A possible defence to this is that Ben is teaching Zone #1 (Pivot) first. When his student has mastered the Pivot, emphases will be more on Zone #3 (Hands). See 9-0. And oh, before you guys tell me, let me pre-empt your reponse: "Pivot Powered Hands Controlled Pivot"...
Not sure what you're asking here, where's the question?

Quote:

Notice how Ben teaches the student to set up to the ball. Ball location is referenced with the left heel, not the Low Point location of the left shoulder! And it looks like the “one inch behind left heel” procedure is recommended for all clubs. However, also notice he suggests that stance width changes with different clubs. How does this relate to Ball/Low Point school of thought? See 2-J and 2-N.
Stance width with a constant ball position changes your aiming point and thus changes low point.

Bonus answer: Or you could teach it with a single aiming point and varying ball positions, both are valid options. I prefer ben's way.

Quote:

“Push the grass back with the club” says Ben when teaching how to take the club away. This resembles a ‘whirly’ type takeaway procedure, which is more compatible with which type of Stroke?
Swinging

Ben is trying to teach the student the "drag away" takeaway technique. Brian says in his "Confessions of a Former Flipper" that ben says (and you can catch part of it in the video above) "brush it away at the hairs, and chop it off at the roots." Something to that effect.

Quote:

Ben talks about his “one third swivel” at the Follow Through in his chips and pitches. What type of Hinge Action (10-10) is he implying/teaching?
Angled Hinging

---------------

How'd i do? ;)

SwingNorthtoSouth 06-23-2005 11:43 PM

I think Ben teaches Drag Loading. When I take a lesson from an A1 who studied with Ben he has all the Ben Doyle manerisms. He will visit with Ben and Ben will visit and stay with him.
Joe Daniels is visiting that A1 right now I think...............
Its very addicting, doing those drills on the course while waiting for your next shot.........................
Shoot ...hold.....rest...............

bantamben1 06-24-2005 07:25 PM

i also visited bdu a few times, ben works very hard at teaching g.o.l.f. and every lesson ive seen him give he spends time trying to eliminate clubhead throwaway. even while working with elkington he didnt let him get away with anything he would call him on the leakage every time he added instead of multiplied. I too spent some time in the bunker with ben taking out that wall of china. and that impact with no throwaway reminds me so much of trevino, mchatton ,o"grady. cant wait to see the next few segments brings back alot of fond memories and some points i forgot even though ben really tries to drill them into your coconut.

wanole 06-24-2005 08:34 PM

tell us
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by swingeasttowest
I think Ben teaches Drag Loading. When I take a lesson from an A1 who studied with Ben he has all the Ben Doyle manerisms. He will visit with Ben and Ben will visit and stay with him.
Joe Daniels is visiting that A1 right now I think...............
Its very addicting, doing those drills on the course while waiting for your next shot.........................
Shoot ...hold.....rest...............


What are some of the drills you do while waiting on the course?

Ian Clark 06-25-2005 04:14 PM

Great video, loved Bens enthusiasm, cant wait for the next one.

nevermind 06-26-2005 10:15 AM

What exactly is this "adding" that Ben talks about?

I found an old tyre out in our paddock, pretty much imovable, and made a few moves at it (Hit). Like the guy in the video, despite keeping the flat left and bent right, I was 'double dribbling'.

jim_0068 06-26-2005 11:33 AM

"adding" means he is trying to "add" to impact with his hands


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