Well i've given basic motion with zero pivot a good try, but it's not for me. As a swinger i feel it's just rehearsing probably my worst fault which is over acceleration.

I've been practicing a shot of a similar length that just involves my pivot transporting the flying wedges. This seems to be benefiting my game and in my case i can't see how having the pivot component involved makes it harder to educate the hands.

I had the exact same issue , until I met Comdpa and he pointed out and demonstrated to me regarding zero pivot . I suggest don't hurry the incubator.. take some time to try understand this and one day the egg will surely hatch. But one thing i can tell you, you are on the right track to follow Comdpa's suggestion . We cannot keep the whole left arm rigid or glued to your pects. nobody really does that . But neither should the left arm is totally independant of the pects. the pressure point 4 is there for a reason.

There is nothing wrong for the pivot to transport your hands, in fact personally I like it too as a swinger and preferred by swingers. The very difficult part for people to understand is how this pivot transport will make your forearm on plane and your hand on plane.. or how your arm/hand move and how your body have to support this movement in order to be On plane. a chicken ,egg problem in my opinion that you will hear tons of debates , confusion and very angry people. XDDDD.

I got a feeling this TGM forum, Or TGM book is not about quick fix .. the only quick fix you will get is really get a TGM coach to demonstrate the motion, you will understand in a fraction of time( see yodaluke in amazing changes section). This forum i believe is more for the core understanding of TGM, the book, the concept, and the genius behind Homer Kelly. Therefore.. Whisper " These people hates quick fix, they are perfectionist in precision and a true mechanics of golf"

I understand what your saying nuke99. I know there is only so much you can glean from a golf forum. I've learnt a lot here but i am aware i have only reached the tip of the iceberg. My problems with basic motion with zero pivot may very well be because of a lack of understanding and/or poor execution, i'll certainly keep an open mind. Like you said i really do need to see an AI (i've got plans to do this when my financial situation looks a bit more rosey).

I'm not a quick fix kind of guy, but i'm also not going to blindly follow something that seems to be doing me more harm than good (i've done that too many times in golf instruction already). I'm just doing what seems best for me at this stage and i've certainly had more benefits with the pivot orientated basic motion.

You can try to understand this
 

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...t=basic+motion

Well I suggest take a good look at that again. only the No.1 accumulator moves.. Nothing else.

Comdpa , who i have the pleasure learning from is not in the same country as I am, so it becomes harder for a totally untrained average golfer.At few stages, my was paralyzed by my analysis! A sure sign of rushing an incubator...
Understanding the book is one thing. Choosing the right model and component another, choosing the model for the right reason is another, Executing is another matter again. Thats how hard it is without attending a complete workshop or an AI around. Not easy for me my friend.. just to share with you.

Yes, i think that you have a point... if educated hands is the sole issue in golf then taking the pivot out has a part to play...but much of eductaion is situation dependent... hands educated in a pivot free environment need not remember evrything in a pivot power world... maybe...

Hand education must be about lag sensation as well as alignments ( the left wrist is flat because the right wrist is bent... because there is lag pressure)

Zero pivot swing gives minimum lag sensation in my experience.... you can't sustain something you barely know is there...

And i have watched many swinging chip videos and hip move... i am waiting for a demo of zero pivot swing basic motion.... hips frozen...

Read my first post on this thread ( page 1 somewhere) and i was really trying to make zero pivot do the job... just failed i guess... will try again someday...

I

I dont know if hand education in stage 1 must be about lag sensation. I can think of educating the hands to keep the structure of the wedges.....

I found this thread that you surely have seen.

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=2471

Come back with your thoughts :)

One more thing, I have been a flipper so I know what you are going through. THE thing that made me progress was monitoring the hands...... I even hit chips by just looking at the hands, to make sure of keeping the structure intact. Then keeping my eyes closed, to get the right feel of it.

Actually you may be confusing Hibbard with Hebron.... Hebron is, I believe, TGM based and was a fair player.

Thanks for the thread link... i do not consciously remember the link but i feel sure i must have read it sometime... it would have interested me at the time...

I still think that a bent right wrist inevitably means lag sensation is involved... especially if you start from standard (mid body hands) address....because once your left wrist flattens/right bends... you got lag sensation....and maintenance of lag sensation for swingers is usually achieved by pivot moving hands....

BuT in basic motion , zero pivot ( which i have tried and can do OK) the left shoulder pulls the hands forward... and for there to be no pivot the right shoulder needs to be preset in its impact degree of "downness"... otherwise the right shoulder needs to move down to maintain lag sensation at pp3 and this movement automatically creates pivot.

SO zero pivot can be done but 12 inches back and forward at most and ball needs to be back in stance and right shoulder down at impact height...and impact address probably better for both hit nd swing... to ensure no pivot and right shoulder preset in down impact position...

Feels like a mini-total motion HIT but not like a mini - total motion swing... that is my problem

Learning hitting from zero pivot basic motion = ideal.... but learn swinging from chip pitch ... then you have alignments, lag sensation and powersource in mini swing which is an exact scaled down version of total motion.

that is practical, realistic ... why should swingers learn alignments ( straight plane and FLW)without lag sensation being sustained in the maner it will be in acquired/total motion...? that is the last i sa at moment... i will read everyone else though... you guys stimulate thoughts...thanks... but i am sounding like a stuck record... PS . i love hitting for chips and small pitches...with minimal pivot!!

lag
 

I think that you talk about accumlator lag when you say you need a pivot to get it. The lag pressure in the hands will be loaded by the change of direction from backswing to downswing.

There is certainly a blend and overlap of the three Lags.
Accumulator Lag is power package and all of its decisions as to load and release. Pivot Lag is the gear train- the Swinger’s gyro or the Hitter’s Platform that begins from the lower body on up.
Clubhead Lag is the lead and drag of the clubhead, the deliberate, positive and heavy Clubhead/Hands relationship.

The shoulders are part of the pivot (Z1) and power package (Z2), both commanded by the Hands (Z3).

Sustain the Lag- all of them.

A very important point.

Zero Pivot And the Right Shoulder
 

The Right Shoulder is part of both the Pivot and the Power Package. Therefore, when Power Package Thrust alone actuates the Primary Lever Assembly (Left Arm and Club), Shoulder Motion does not violate a Zero Pivot requirement (2-H).

If, on the other hand, the Shoulder is Pulled into Start Down by the Hip Action, then there has been Pivot Thrust and at least a Partial Pivot.

Thanks Yoda, i understand your point on right shoulder now... i think

if right shoulder movement is merely to allow stability of pressure points but the drive for movement comes from left shoulder then there is no pivot thrust - only shoulder passive motion. ? Is that right?