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Right Upper Arm...
Lately, last 6 months, I have been experiencing what I would call a burning sensation in the upper right arm (aprox 4 fingers width from the top), when I am golfing or practicing. It comes and go and the intensity is mild to strong. It is to the point I can usually feel it within 6 swings.
Now, I have been to the doctors, four and counting. They can find nothing so far, but I am assured more tests are to follow. So far no muscle or bone damage according to the doctors but they want to do more testing. Was wondering if anyone has experienced this. Just kind of trying to get an idea of what this might be or what to expect. |
Hi Martee,
Does the area on your right upper arm hurt to touch? Do you have the pain with any other activities?? Do you have any neck pain associated with this?? Dr Dave |
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At first no, lately just swinging the right arm can sometimes set it off. No other pain associated. It is really weird. |
Martee,
How is the range of motion of your right arm? If the right arm is parallel to the ground, can your raise your arm so that it is vertical to the ground? |
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The 4th imperative
Martee,
You will be amazed what exercise will do to regain some youth in your body and game. Never too old to start. Let me put it another way...it's an imperative. :D Bagger |
Hi Martee
During what part of the swing does it bother you the most? Takeaway,downswing, follow thru.. ? |
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And I can't recall that it starts at any particular part of the golf stroke. |
Re: The 4th imperative
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For Whom The Bell Tolls
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I'll get with Vickie and see if we can't put a routine together that will keep you on track, both for a general fitness program and also for G.O.L.F. I'm almost to the point of putting up a video of her working with me. Admittedly, it's Not Ready For Prime Time, but it is... The Ultimate Sacrifice! |
Martee,
If you have no pain with palpation of the area it would lead me to believe you might be having "referred pain". This might be a nerve being aggravated by something in your neck and you are feeling the pain in the area of innervation. Difficult to say without examining you (cyberspace is great for a lot of things, but long distance diagnosis isn't one of them). It could also be a subdeltoid bursitis, but ,having seen 4 docs, I'm sure someone would have picked this up. That's why I'm suggesting looking more proximal. Just my 2 cents. Good luck and keep us posted. Vickie and Physioguy deal with the musculoskeletal system a lot and hopefully will add to my stuff. Stay healthy! Dr Dave |
Hi Martee,
Sorry to take so long. I actually have a new client with a similar discription of discomfort. With the kinesthetic testing we have done I have found a mismanagement of the agreements in the medial deltoid, posterior deltoid, triceps brachii, primarily two of the rotator cuff muscles teres major and the subscapularis, not to be undone by the tricep participation. Basically his shoulder articulation is out of agreement. In the advanced stages you could have some heavier problems as Dr. Dave has mentioned. Best case scenario you just need to create a new awareness of the proper alignment of these muscles and your symptoms will subside. Now for the fun part. That means exercising these muscles slowly and deliberately everyday. The primary key will be to start with a properly aligned whole body and then thru the exercises renegotiate the agreements for easier movement. Dr. Dave asked about neck pain and I couldn't agree more. Even if your pain is not in your neck, if you can see that your ear lobe is forward of your shoulders when you stand comfortably, then you are probably looking at the origin of these misagreements and you will have to make corrections in your posture to even appropriately apply the exercises. Most of the exercises we do specifically to reintegrate a sounder participation of the muscles are not written in text, I just teach them. I will work on putting these in type for you over the weekend and get it to you by the first of the week. In the mean time I will paste two exercises that you can start with to begin to improve your posture and to begin to open up your shoulder joint. Don't try to discipline yourself to do the exercises. Instead think about ridding yourself of the pain. That will be all the motivation you need. When the video of the class I taught at "Three G.O.L.F. Guys and You" is posted, the standard form exercise is demonstrated and you'll see that it is really as funky as you feel when you try it. Standard Form (Basic safety position for all exercises) Stand with your feet shoulder width apart, weight evenly distributed between your hips. Let your weight move back to your heels which will encourage you to bend your knees slightly to keep your balance. Your back should still be straight . Lift your shoulders straight up toward the ceiling as high as you can trying to touch your ears. Push your shoulders back as far as you can still keeping them raised. Draw your neck back and up (pulling your chin under) to be even with your shoulders. You will feel your neck lengthen as you keep your chin down. Note: You will feel your back and your chest stretch in this effort. Do Not let your head rock back to hyperextend (your chin would lift to the ceiling in this inappropriate position). Deliberately bring your shoulders down allowing your chest and back to expand to full breadth. Key: In this position your chest will feel forward and 'soldieresque' .This does not feel natural! But we all know exercise is NOT natural, but it works. Shoulder Stretch Deltoid / Rotator Cuff Joint Lie on the floor on you back, with your feet flat and your knees bent, arms byyour side with the palms down Your shoulders should be down and your lower back will have a natural curvature, in some cases keeping your low back off the floor. Do not allow your back to change position through out the movement. Lift one arm completely straight up, around, and over the shoulder to lay it along the side of your head with the palm facing the ceiling. Keep your arm straight through the elbow and hand and only stretch as far as the shoulder joint will allow. Never force it or just let the hand fall to the floor. In the early stages (or on tense days) your arm may not go to the floor but with time it will comfortably rotate around. Hold for 20-45 and then engage your shoulder to lift the arm around to the starting position. Check to be sure your torso is flat and relaxed. Repeat on the other side. Key. Your goal is not to lay your hand on the floor, Your goal is to create enough flexibility capability in the shoulder joint that the arm bone can smoothly complete a 180 degree rotation that results in your hand being on the floor. Read one exercise, try to do it, then read it again to see which little piece you didn't get. Since they are not normal nor familiar they will be hard to impliment in the beginning. But you will get the feel quickly if you give yourself several tries. Repeat the Standard Form exercise several times everyday to encourage better neck and shoulder alignment. You can do it seated also. I would encourage you to do it in the mirror initially to give yourself some reinforcement. Repeat the Shoulder Stretch slowly and with great attention to keeping the elbow straight three times on one side before moving to the other side. Initially just do these once a day and after a couple of days try to do the in the morning and again later in the day. By then I will have more movements to incorporate the rotational aspects of your problem. Ok get started and I'll get to work for you. Vickie |
I was going to say I didn't know where to start, but I think Vickie might take exception to that.
Will start the exercises tomorrow morning. 'Referred Pain', hadn't heard that term used before, of course I hadn't heard 'mismanagement of the agreements' either. Now after reading the post, I quickly jumped up and ran over to a mirror to see where my ear lobes are, that is with respect to my shoulder. My first few attempts yeilded nothing since I keep turning my head to see. This obviously isn't correct. So next it was to bathroom of mirrors. Finally I just grabbed a pencil and held in place when I turned my head to see where. It looks as if....just forward of center of the shoulder, I think... Anyway it is off to print the instructions for the exercises and see what happens.. I assume the standard advice applies, if it hurts, stop. Either I am doing something wrong of I have discovered a way to demonstrate it the doctors....???? Thanks...everyone.... |
Yes, yes Martee, your flexibility work should not hurt. You should become very aware of the muscles as they elongate to stretch out of your torso by way of the shoulder joint but if you move slowly enough you will be very aware of when to stop just before you impinge the joint. All that means is that you shouldn't feel any acute pain. This particular shoulder stretch shouldn't instigate the pain you suggested to me. It does, however, stretch out all of the same muscles and the big core lat muscle (the large back muscle that creates the 'V' shape of a gymnist). This muscle is responsible for drawing the shoulder down when you articulating (rotating and/or moving) the shoulder.
Don't worry to much about the language. To clarify, I talke about the ability of the muscles to work appropriately as an agreement they make. Some muscles have to contract and others have to elongate (stretch) and others are just stabilizing. When your posture is off they develop patterns to create motion that compensate for that mis-alignment. Then, if anything else in your swing or your life activity (strangely getting a car with a bigger stirring wheel, or a new seat changes one of your life patterns) the muscles are not in their optimal 'agreement' to make appropriate changes. Likewise, once you agrivate a muscle or your soft tissue with a particular activity, it is hard for the body to correct and recover if your starting posture is off. For the record, my client is already feeling relief. The physical relief is great but I think he is most relieved mentally because he thought he was going to have to live with this and it had continued to develop to a point that he was skipping 'golf day'.. Mon Dieu! Will get into the injury specific exercises this weekend as promised. Glad to get you a jumpstart. Vik |
G'day all, new to the site and saw this thread. I am just coming back from 7 months on the sidelines due to similar symptoms but in my left arm.
I was diagnosed with an adhesive capsulitis caused buy both rotator cuff muscles and the AC joint. I was also very stiff in my neck. Even though the shoulder was the problem I suffered nearly no pain in the shoulder itself. I suffered sharp stabbing pains about 4 inches down from my shoulder on the outside of my arm. None of this showed up too much on all my scans except for an MRI which showed some thickening of the tendons. I was administered a cortisone injection into my rotator cuff followed a week later by a hydrodilitation. The shoulder improved somewhat but returned after about 9 weeks. I was referred to a shoulder surgeon and after noticing I lacked rotation in my arm he gave me a cortisone injection into my AC joint followed by another hydrodilitation. 6 weeks on my shoulder feels alot better. First time with no pain since October 2004. I still have weakness in my shoulder with my outward rotations but started gym to help strengthen. Also throwing a tennis ball against a wall while keeping my arm in an "L" shape straight up (technical term.. haha) I'm not saying this is what you have... but I was certain something was wrong with my arm and was only convinced it wasn't until it went away after shoulder treatment. If it isn't being resolved then seek a second and third opinion. I had a great team working for me and if one wasn't sure they referred me to someone who could help. I am still having physio once a week and in the gym 3 - 4 times a week and alot of stretching. On a side note: I have just started with a new coach... TGM A-I here in Australia. Looking forward to making my mark now. Good luck with the shoulder!!!! |
Willow Wisdom
Welcome aboard, Willow, and thanks for this insightful first post. Keep'em comin!
Our 'Down Under' ranks are growing, and we look to add many new friends in the coming months. If your new TGM Instructor isn't already rambling around these halls, please give him a strong #1 Pressure Point thrust our way. |
Paul Smith is my new coach even though he is a 4 hour flight away. Technology is a wonderful thing.
After seeing my swing improve remarkably after 2 days with Paul I am excited about the future... As long as I can get my body right. Nice to meet you Yoda and all on your great site. |
Hello All,
Actually, Willow Golf, I liked your technical description of the lateral rotation stated as "'L' shape straight up. It is certainly a phrase everyone can relate to. (And there I go dangling a participle) For clarification, "adhesive capsulitis" is more commonly known as a Frozen Shoulder. There is much controversy about the diagnosis and the treatment. Cortisone truly works in that, in my esoteric opinion, it interrupts the distress on the central nervous system and the joint can relax and do it's job of healing. Chronic pain is a great deterrent and distracter of the bodies ability to 'get on with the process of healing' no matter what you do; rest, stretch, or strengthen. Unfortunately, too many people take advantage of the interruption of pain and over-do during this reprieve from pain and do deeper and more permanent damage. Sounds like Willow Golf continued to get great information and created a healing protocol. As Willow Golf typed, even though the pain is in your arm it truly does all initiate with all of the shoulder muscles and then impacts the extremities. Since the extremity muscles also attach to the core (the bicep muscle attaches to the top of the shoulder blade where the tricep muscles attach to the side of the shoulder blade) and the core attachments in this case are shoulder muscles everything becomes complicated to diagnose and treat. Allow me a moment of over-simplified and not too politically correct anatomy. On the most basic level the inside of the shoulder blade is a muscle called the rhomboid, which participates with,among other attachments, the rotator cuff muscles, biceps, triceps, traps and lats all of which keep the shoulder in place for ease of movement of your arms. In my practice I find that by correcting the postural alignment of the torso, core, muscles you take away the confusion that creates mis-management of the connections that allow the extremity muscles, in this case arms, to move freely through the joint without discomfort. All of this to say hurrah! Physio for specific and improved joint articulation, strengthening and flexibility; that’s the secret. Posts from every conceivable resource and experience are what make a thread like this most beneficial. Welcome and thank you Willow Golf for participating and offering your great insights and experience. Vickie |
Ok Martee, I simply can't figure out how to post pictures but I can certainly post text. I promised and here is a delivery. Hopefully you have been doing the two simple movements I posted a few days ago. The Standard Form exercise is going to show in every single exercise forthcoming. I'm going to make some suggestions and explain my philosophy and then post the exercises. I have put then in a tiny font to take up less room on the thread and it is still a space hog. If you cut and past them onto a word document and put the font at 16 the layout will reestablish itself and it's large enough to read without glasses.
I recommend reading the exercises through, then doing the movement as best you can, and immediately re-read while your muscles are sensitive to recognize the aspects you may have missed. These are all very specific This is certainly not the end of the exercises that will be needed for full recouperation but they should take you out of pain and start creating a sounder alignment. As you go thru these over the next week I will post another level to integrate along the way. The exercises are listed in a specific order , beginning with larger muscles and grosser motion, that I think best facilitates the work and prepares you for the next, more refined movement. Please read the instructions carefully and allow your work to grow over time. Here we go: Rehabilitating an injury, no matter how slight, requires frequent session but with less attention (repetitions) as the tissue is already inflamed. Each time you allow your body to review the work, you are imprinting a new neurological agreement between the muscles of your core and extremities. You are also bring blood to the muscles involved in the disfunction which provides healing nutrients to the site by way of the increasing in blood supply. Since your body has created a movement that is causing restriction and discomfort you want to interrupt that agreement and create a new one. For this reason your movements must be very ‘on purpose as you are interrupting the involuntary motion the body wants to create. Another way to think of it is that you are retraining your muscle memory. Increase your work only moderately each week to allow for full muscle adaptation without aggravating your condition. Sometimes slower really is better. Execution Start with a very low guage therapy band (not the sergical tubing) and build to more tension as you improve. Move slowly and deliberately through each motion. Really think about the movement you are creating as opposed to “just going through the motions”. Remember to keep your torso, your core, stationary as it is the foundation for this extremity work. We are holding steady the attachments to the core in order to improve the quality and capabilities of the attachments to your arms Sets, Reps, and Frequency Perform the motion twice a day the first week and three times a day the second. Keep the band on your door so it’s always easy to remember and just get the job done. Two favorite ‘success sites’ are on your bathroom door and your office door A mirror is your training partner and will let you see when you go out of alignment long before you can feel it. Begin with only 4-6 repetitions during each session building to 8 repetitions in the second week and 10 the third. Theraputic Band Exercises for Shoulder Health Band Lat Pulldown Tie a knot in the center of your band and place it over the top of a door that you can close securely. Both sides of the band should be visible. Stand facing the door so that you can stretch your arms out completely without lifting your shoulders Step back from the door until you can raise your hands to eye level with a taunt band. Create Standard Form. Squeeze your latissimus dorsi muscle (the muscle that create the “V” on gymnists) and pull the hands to chest level ond off to the sides. Your elbows should always be lower than your hands You should not over arch your low back. Sit into your hips to avoid this natural tendency.. Let your arms come back to the starting position without rolling your shoulders forward and loosing standard form. Repeat. Tip: You can do this seated if you have a band that is long enough. If you go to a physical therapy (and some gyms) you could ask them if you could buy a band the length you want. I would call first, some are more willing and able than others. Band Row Wrap the band around any stationary object or you can again close it in the door, I recommend wrapping the band once around the door knob on the opposite wide and then closing the door securely. You can stand or sit for this exercise as long as the band is placed at waist level. Create Standard Form (whether seated or standing) which should bring tensio to the band. Squeeze your rhomboids together (the muscles between your shoulder blades and pull your elbows back bringing your hands to your hips not your ribs. Release the tension between your shoulder blades and allow your arms to come forward without rolling your shoulders and loosing standard form. The tops of your shoulders should remain still, not lifting up toward your ears. Repeat Standing Band Stretch Stand in Standard Form holding your band in both hands at your thighs and your band taunt but not stretched. Lift both arms straight up and over your head allowing the arms to stretch out allowing the band to keep them from dropping all the way out. You will be making a “V” like a victory celebration. Keep your shoulders down as you lift your arms. Only go back over your shoulders to the extent you can keep your back from arching and your elbows straight. Keep your abdomen engaged. Bring your arms down slowly without rolling your shoulders forward or losing Standard Form and repeat. Standing Abduction Band Stretch Stand in Standard Form holding your band in one hand at your thigh and your band taunt but not stretched. Hold the band with your palm facing the floor. Stretch your band up to shoulder height and out about half way between a forward lift and a side lift. (about 25 degrees) Resist as you bring the arm back to your side without rolling your shoulders or leaning forward. Repeat on the other arm. Tricep Band Stretch Standard Form. Hold your band at one end in your right hand and throw it over your shoulder. Lift your elbow toward the ceiling which puts your hand behind your head. Reach around with your left hand and grab the other end of the band to take up the slack. Place the back of your left hand on the back of your left hip. Your left shoulder should feel relaxed. Keeping your right elbow in place, stretch your arm out so that your right hand is over your elbow and the arm is as directly over the shoulder as possible. Resist as you bend the elbow and bring your hand back down to starting position. Repeat Shoulder Adduction with a Therapy Band Wrap a therapy band around the outside of a door knob and bring the length of the band inside then close the door securely. Stand with your right shoulder perpendicular to the door and hold the band in your RIGHT hand with no slack. Get into standard form, bring your right elbow to your side with your elbow bent and your forearm parallel to the floor. Take ½ foot step forward allowing your shoulder to rotate so that your forearm is now perpendicular to your side. Keep your shoulders level during this rotation; the door knob is behind you. With your palm facing upward and keeping your elbow stationary on your side rotate your hand around to the front and center of your body and then resist the tension of the band as you rotate your forearm back around. Only rotate forward as much as you can without lifting your elbow off your side. Feel the resistance as you hand comes back to a perpendicular position to your side. When you get to this point try to allow the tension of the band to rotate your shoulder and therfore your arm back a little further and deeperagain keeping your shoulders stationary. Repeat on the opposite side. Key: Your stationary torso position provides the foundation for your shoulder to expand capability safely. As soon as your shoulders drop you have limited the true opportunity for rotational improvement. Shoulder Abduction with a Therapy Band Wrap a therapy band around the outside of a door knob and bring the length of the band inside then close the door securely. Stand with your right shoulder perpendicular to the door and hold the band in your LEFT hand with no slack. Get into standard form, bring your left elbow to your left side with your elbow bent and your forearm parallel to the floor. Take ½ foot step backward, your left hand is now comfortably at the center of your torso. Keep your shoulders level during this rotation; the door knob is forward of your hips. With your thumb pointing upward and keeping your elbow stationary on your side rotate your hand around the front of your body to your left. When you get to this point try to rotate your shoulder a little further around and deeper again keeping your shoulders stationary. Feel the resistance as you hand comes back to a central position on your torso. Repeat on the opposite side. These exercises are the property of The Physical Experience with Vickie Lake. Please use them and share them but do not publish them without the written consent of Vickie Lake. Thank you. The Physical Experience with Vickie Lake Atlanta, GA 404-630-6703 for phone appointments or training sesions. |
Thank you...Have printed it out. Next will read them and then follow your instructions.
I will keep you posted. Yes I am doing the first two. I have printed out the instructions and have them pasted up in various rooms so I see them. Then I do them. Thanks Again.... |
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I had adhesvie capsulitis (frozen shoulder) 5 years ago. Adhesive capsulitis starts off with intense pain in the shoulder area. Later on the pain decreases, but the range of motion becomes severely restricted. Most doctors misdiagnose this ailment. The medical professionals that will know whether a person has frozen shoulder are physical therapists and doctors specializing in sports medicine. The PT showed me some stretching exercises to get my range of motion back. I was one of the lucky ones; my range of motion after 2 months was good enough to allow me to resume golfing, and I had my full range of motion back in 5 months. Most people with frozen shoulder require 12 to 18 months to get full range of motion back. |
The amount of recovery time depends on the duration of the degeneration, the general health of the patient and how well they receive and impliment the exercises. Certainly the sooner you get a handle on your problem and the more seriously you take your recovery the sooner you will heal. It's always an advantage to have hands on assistance with the exercises. There is so much a professional can see that you as the injured on can't feel. Hopefully we have Martee on his way.
Vik |
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Wow! Thanks for adding that last post EdStraker. In rehabilitating a painful condition I start with twice a day and build up to four . But it is hard for most of us to imagine doing any number of exercises that often if we haven't been doing any exercise or doing the traditional one hour a day. You are do right that diligence is key. Your rapid recovery certainly bears bright light on the benefits and the opportunity to heal. Thanks again for adding your positive expertise. Vickie
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Martee, How are you doing? Any improvements with your arm? Are you getting the exercises in-between the events your reali life? Physioguy posted a great thread and talked about this exact phenomenon. He mentioned that he did some deep tissue with a woman and experienced some really good results. I wanted to just make sure you'd considered some manipulation along with the work that is just necessary for this sport. Jus' checkin' in. Vik
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1. The frequency of the pain has GREATLY diminished!!!! :lol: 2. I have been doing the exercise, some more than others, probably not as frequent as I should. 3. I visited the PT and they took some measurements. They noted that my range of motion on the right side is 'significant' less than my left side. Some of the tests I was 30* plus difference. He gave me a couple of other exercises to focus on the shoulder. I have played 6 9 hole rounds in the past 8 days, the other 2 days I practiced. Result is that only once during this period did I have the pain. Twice later afterwards I felt a little pain, but nothing like what it was before. I should point out that I am WALKING and CARRYING my bag on a hilly course. The last time I walked this much playing golf has had to be about 10 years or longer ago. It was rough at first, but it is getting better. Hopefully in two weeks I will be up to walking 18 holes each day. What I have learned or benefitted so far... 1. BIGGIE.. while doing the exercises I noticed that I was a bit quick and jerky. Actually if it wasn't for doing it in front of a mirror I am not sure I would have noticed. Light Bulbs lite up. :idea: I know and you have said the motion is to be smooth, deliberate and slow. The BIGGIE is that during my golf stroke, in particular the back stroke I thought I was smooth, but no way. How do I know, cause I smoothed out the back stroke and all of sudden I can feel PP#3 at the top all the way down. There were some additional results as well, BUT my PP#3 comes and goes but this seems to solve that. To verify the motion I checked the vids from when I was with Yoda when I could feel PP#3, and sure enough the backstroke was smooth and slow as compared to the motion that I for some reason reverted back too.... :D 2. Ouch! :cry: The Standard Form position you provided. Well I knew I didn't have the greates posture, but this exercise certainly showed me that I had terrible posture. I find myself now working on my posture everytime I stand up. Also I have adapted to when just standing, to having one hand in the small of back, pushing in and up causing the shoulders to get out of the stoop position. Effects from this tells me that my 'core' muscles need some attention. Result of this for the golf stroke....I find that my setup, though not natural yet, has been adjusted resulting in some great results. So though the pain has not completely disappeared, improvement, heck signigicant improvement has been noticed. :) My goal for the up coming weeks is to get the exercises down to a routine that I do at least twice a day with some that I do more often (the posture). Walk 18 holes and score good..... Thanks and oh the golfing results, well not great there is much consistency. In fact 5 of the 6 rounds yields exactly the same stats. The 6th round was a 3 stroke improvement. Today we will see.... :?: Thanks again... |
I'm glad you are gaining some relief, Martee and even more glad you are taking your new body awareness to the game and the rest of your life behaviors. Let me know the exercises from PT, they might be redundant to the next phase exercises. I would like to expand your shoulder and arm work within the next 10 days. Thanks for the thorough post. Not bad for a guy who thought he didn't have any exercise discipline. Let's talk soon. Vickie
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;) :):cool: \\:D/
3 weeks plus and counting... Pain Free!!!! Wow... Getting better at doing them daily...... Positure is getting a bit better...... Golf Stroke is starting to have a consistent rhythm.... Life is GOOD!!!!! Thanks.... |
Ok Martee, you are the bomb. You almost convinced me you didn't have the capacity to do whis work. Since you have proven me wrong you have enjoyed the spoils. Isn't it great to be pain free. That is great news but you also indicated two critical pieces of information that I hope everyone reads: It took three weeks plus to get the benefits of your effort and you became consistent in daily attention to your problem. Now, for your effort, no symptom. Notice I didn't say no problem. You problem origin is correcting as is your posture but you want to keep doing your work and bringing it to higher levels (with more resistance and different movements) if you want to eliminate the problem and not just the symptom we call pain. The benefit here is that you won't have to keep revisiting this issue over and over if you correct the structure. Glad, so glad, your golf game is enjoying improvements. This is why I do what I do. Thx for sharing. Vickie
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