Flat Left Wrist?
 

What exactly does it mean to have a "flat left wrist" at impact? Is this in reference to the #3 Accumulator... meaning no bend only uncock and roll or that the wrist faces the target, or what? I play with a relatively strong grip and my left wrist seems bent at setup or at least it is not facing the target. Should I only be rotating it and not bending it (is that possible with a strong grip) when I take my grip?

I want to purchase an impact bag and try some drills but I also want to be sure I'm not practicing a bad habit and really get good at THAT!

I would appreciate any clarification.

Michael

The Flat Left Wrist And Its Geometric Equivalent
 

The key alignment is that the Clubshaft be 'in line' with the Left Arm. This assures the Rhythm of the Stroke, i.e., the Left Arm and Club are traveling at the same RPM throughout the Downstroke (6-B-3-0).

If the Left Wrist is placed on the Grip in a Vertical Condition, then the Flat Left Wrist at Impact assures compliance with the 'in line' Left Arm and Shaft requirement. It also affords a visual confirmation of that compliance (4-D-1).

However, if you have Turned your Left Wrist when taking the Grip, then that precise amount of Wrist Turn becomes Wrist Bend at Impact. Hence, you have lost the visual check afforded by the Flat Left Wrist. However, as long as the Clubshaft has not passed the in-line condition with the Left Arm, you have complied with the Law of the Flail (2-K-#2) and maintained Rhythm. This compliance -- despite its lack of a visual check -- is known as the Geometric Flat Left Wrist.

Finally
 

The Flat left wrist or its EQUIVALENT defined. Colonel 12 Piece, herein lies the answer to the question I posed to you on more than one occassion: How can you have compliance to the Flying wedges with a 10-2-D grip? The Master has confirmed my theory perxactly!

Thanks Yoda, validation is sweet!

EC

My turn to say "I love this place!!!" You just can't get this kind of information outside of paid entry, closed door training sessions.

Hey Eddie, when ya gunna get your Bio up for us on the Pro Contributors page??? Pinehurst ought to be slowing a bit by now.:D

It is very satisfying to come back so soon after asking a question and having it answered... you guys are the best!

Yoda, a question concerning your answer... if I have effectively bent my wrist to grip the club haven't I violated one of the basics of G.O.L.F." If so what is the cost? I get that it is a "geometrical flat left wrist" but is there some cost associated with it and if so, how can I minimize it's effect?

Also does gripping the club vertically mean zero acuumulator #3 angle? Would a vertical left wrist be something I should take on learning? You can probably summize that I stregthened my grip years ago because of fundamental flaws in my swing anyhoo.

Thanks a bunch,

Michael

Next Up!
 

Thanks, Michael. Glad to help.

I've got to head out, so let's put some other guys in the game. TONGZILLA...Batter up! :)

E . . . Fog is lifting and the sun is peaking through. Now we must meet again in Raleighwood so you can demo how 10-2-D "can SLING it into the groud."

My left hand just hangs TURNED naturally . . . I gotta make 10-2-D my friend. I was born with a 10-2-D left hand.

Superbowl!

Bucket

Very Important - Key
 

For the longest time when I studied TGM, read forums and books BLBG, I struggled with some of the concepts in practice. Not that I didn't understand what I read, BUT the concept in practice seemed to be not as it would be 'ideally' or in preception as in words. THEN...

This statement/description made a world of difference in my understanding and implementation of the principles of TGM.

Precision is a MUST but the references and measurements MUST be relative. In short, references to the target, the ball, the ground is not alway the relative reference points, that is really old school or traditional thinking in a lot of respect and the visual check points can be misleading.

I think that is when I fully started to appreciate 3-F-5 (Setting Up / Address Routine).

I still wonder at times if I am confusing position golf with alignment golf (e.g. clubface alignment at top or should it be the levers, hands, etc. cause the grip to clubface was set at address?)

Again Thank You Yoda, you have indeed made a complex subject understandable.

The Bridge
 

Thank you, Martee, for your probing questions and discontent with an incomplete understanding. We are both pilgrims along the way, and I am pleased to help wherever I can.

Homer Kelley left an enduring legacy, but he knew that without a competent Instructor, his work was doomed to remain inaccessible. The goal he envisioned so many years ago -- accurate information in the hands of those who would learn to play better Golf -- remains in many ways unrealized.

I am proud to be a bridge to that dream.

Mr. K's GENIUS not just "key" but Imperative
 

Good post Martee . . . .

Let's see what the book has to say about the relation of the Flat Left Wrist and the corresponding Left Arm Flying wedge . . .

6-B-3-0-1 THE FLYING WEDGES The Clubhead may appear to move in a an arc around and outside the Hands when related to the Left Arm – the very basic Left Arm Flying Wedge. So – except in Sections 1 and 3 (Chapter 8) the entire Left Arm, the Clubshaft and the back of the Left Hand are ALWAYS positioned against the same flat plane – the Right Forearm and the Clubshaft are, in like manner, positioned on the plane of the Right Wrist Bend AT RIGHT ANGLES TO THE LEFT ARM PLANE. . Study 4-D-1 regarding “Grip” and “Flat Left Wrist”. Also see 7-3.

However in this case since we are discussing the TURNED LEFT HAND . . . the Left Hand and clubshaft are NOT positioned against the same flat plane BECAUSE the Left Hand is turned ON-TOP of the grip.

AND if we are assuming a 10-2-D grip, the Right Wrist Bend and Right Forearm are NOT AT RIGHT ANGLES TO THE LEFT ARM PLANE. They are as Mr. K says in 10-2-D:

Now the Right Wrist is Vertical and the Left Wrist is Turned to the top of the Clubshaft so that the Left Wristcocking motion will be on the same line as the Right Wrist Bend . . .Any Left Wrist Bend at Impact Fix should be maintained throughout the Stroke.

And per 2-P . . .

Wristcock is a Clubhead motion – not a Clubface motion. Only with a Turned Left Wrist, such as 10-2-D, can Uncocking be both motions, that is, actually Throwing the Clubface at the Ball.

But why is the CLUBFACE being THROwN if we abide by the advice to maintain the same amount of Left Wrist Bend throughout the Stroke?

Thanks for indulging . . .

Bucket

Double Your Pleasure
 

Not so fast there, Colonel. The 10-2-D Grip mandates only a Turned Left Wrist. The Right Wrist remains Vertical and the precision alignments of the Right Forearm Flying Wedge remain intact.

Further, the Turned Left Wrist does not negate the true Plane of the Left Arm Flying Wedge, i.e., the Vertical Plane of the Left Wristcock Motion. The only difference from the Vertical Left Wrist version is that the Turned Left Wrist (cocked in a Vertical Plane) will produce a Double Wristcock. That is, the Left Wrist not only Cocks, it also Bends.

And the Right Forearm Flying Wedge is indeed placed perpendicular to this Plane of the Left Wrist Double-Cock Motion.

Here's a quick reminder guys: Homer said that a Strong Single Action Grip (10-2-B, Left Wrist Vertical, not Turned) is mandatory throughout the Basic Curriculum for G.O.L.F. If you're not sure whether to make the change...take the hint!

To understand what Vertical means, look at photo in 4-C-1. If you extend your Left Arm straight in front of yourself, parallel to the ground with fingers extended, you will end up looking like 4-C-1. Now without Turning or Rolling your Left Wrist, lower your arm into a more golf-like position. Maintaining this Vertical position of your Left Wrist, you can place the club in the cup of your Left Hand (for minimal Accumulator 3, typically used for putting) or the heel pad of your Left Hand ('normal' amount of Accumulator #3). Therefore, using a 10-2-B Grip does not necessarily equate to zero Accumulator #3.

Now I believe part of your confusion is this. You think Accumulator #3 application is Rolling the Left Wrist through Impact, which is true (kind of). Hence you think having a Vertical Left Wrist means Zero Accumulator #3. Am I on barking up the wrong tree? If not, I will further clarify your confusion upon request.

Thank you. I looked up the references you were pointing to and got clear on the matter. What I was asking about Acc. #3 had to do with the wrist being "bent or rolled" in order to take what I term as a "strong" grip, which it does. And since one of the basic fundamentals of this golf theory requires no bending of the left wrist (ideal scenario) to have all the components work together, on plane, I am going to take on learning the 10-2-B grip.

I started out playing golf seven years ago with what is termed a vertical grip (or "weak" grip in non-G.O.L.F. terms) and my wrist always felt weak and vulnerable to injury because of many mishits. So basically I changed to a strong grip (I believe what I do would be more like 10-2-D) because of that and due to poor quality of impact (ball contact).

I also noticed that I define my down swing plane by my left shoulder and from something I read today in the book the right shoulder defines the plane and the left arm and shoulder are never on plane (is that correct?. The TGM book is difficult to understand and there are so many sections that contain references to other sections that it seems like it would take a day to just read one section and all it's references... but with the help of all of you that have been playing, learning and teaching this technology, I feel as though I've learned more about the golf swing in one month then the other 6 years and 11 months that I've endeavored to do so.

What you guys do here and who you are all being is extraordinary and I want to let you know that it is appreciated and it makes a difference.

Michael

Woops misunderstood that . . . I thought that the Right Forearm needed to at 90 degrees to the VERTICAL FLAT LEFT WRIST. Learning something here.

Why is 10-2-D release motion considered "throwing the Clubface at the ball?" Don't understand this . . . What does he mean?

I'm trying to reconcile these to quotes:

4-D-0 RELEASE MOTIONS . . . Normally, Uncocking is a function of the Wrists actuating the Clubhead (4-B). See 5-0 and 7-11. It has nothing to do with Clubface alignment at Impact – that is the function of the Hands, executing a Clubface Motion (4-C) – Accumulator #3 (2-G). Whenever the Wrist Motion (instead of Hand Motion) throws the Clubface at the ball, there will be Steering and Clubhead Throwaway.

AND

10-2-D STRONG DOUBLE ACTION . . . This Grip Type features maximum Wristcocking action and strong support for both Acceleration and Impact loads.

So 10-2-D grip Throws the CLUBFACE at the ball which sounds like a BAD thing pe 4-D-0. But then he says that 10-2-D provides strong support for acceleration and impact loads.

Just what is throwing the clubface at the ball . . . is good or bad or both?

Thanks!

Colonel B

The 10-2-B Grip may not be as weak as you think.

Do this again: Extend your Left Arm straight in front of yourself, parallel to the ground with fingers extended, you will end up looking like 4-C-1. Now keeping your Left Wrist Vertical and your Left Arm parallel to the ground, swing the whole of your Left Arm about six inches to your right (just like a door). Without changing anything from this position, drop your Left Arm into a golf-like like position. Important: Note how your Left Wrist seems to be slightly Turned! In fact, it's perfectly Vertical! It's Vertical to the Horizontal Plane.

Another point. Following directly from above, keeping the same alignments, place a club into the heel pad of your left hand. If you did everything correctly, your fingers should still be extended. Now if you wrap your fingers around the grip, notice how the Left Wrist looks very slightly more turned!

Yet another point. If you place your left thumb slightly to the right of centre of grip as per last paragraph of 10-2-0 ("aft"), as you wrap your fingers around the grip, your left wrist will look more turned than if you placed your left thumb in the convential centre line position.

Hope this helps Mike!

These Guys Are Good!
 

Great post, Tong. It took me several years in TGM -- and many weak, 'dying quail' Golf Shots -- to grasp this truth.

Here's one more way to get the idea across. With your Left Hand, pick up a bottle of water, take a sip and then lower it in front of you until your left forearm is parallel to the ground. Take a look at your Left Wrist: It is Vertical. Grip a Golf Club the same way, and you're in business.

Listen up, Michael. This is the straight skinny!

I'll have a go at this, but I'm a non-expert so may be wrong...

With 10-2-D the turned left wrist mean that wrist cock is on plane without a swivel first, so uncocking the left wrist will throw not only the cubhead, but also the clubface at the ball. But with a strong single action grip and standard wrist action, one swivels then cocks, so the clubface turns away from the ball. In that case the uncocking of the left wrist only throws the clubhead at the ball - the clubface still has to roll into the ball - attempting to throw the clubface at the ball from this position (as well as the clubhead) results in a breakdown of the left wrist.

Basically with 10-2-D you can use a sort of hammering (uncocking) motion of the left wrist to hammer the clubhead and face into the ball because the clubface is perpendicular to the plane of the left wrist cock.

Hope this helps.

Chris

Thanks Chris! Very good analysis! Sounded pretty "expert" to me. That is kind of the same thing I was thinking. Since the Left Hand is TURNED there is no need for Start Up Swivel in Swinging as you point out.

To me it would also stand to reason that any Release Swivel coulc be disasterous guaranteeing that the Clubface hit the OUTSIDE quadrant of the ball. FORE LEFT!!!!!

As far as the HAMMERING motion, with the "preferred" 10-2-B grip, the HAMMERING is a VERTICAL hammer. But with 10-2-D would the HAMMERING be a bit more "side armed" or "angled"? During Impact and Separation the Left Hand would still be TURNED and not ROLLED to maintained the prescribed PADDLEWHEEL motion?

Sorry I'm such an anal wart on this.

Tong Mr.K would be proud! Another stellar post! Moving the hands on the Horizontal Plane the dropping down to the Inclined Plane . . . Hello Dual Horizontal Hinge Motion.

Wrist Wranglings
 

Colonel,

Put a 10-2-D Grip -- Left Wrist Turned On Plane -- on a hammer whose head faces to the left. Then, drive a nail into a wall on your left. That is 'Throwing the Clubface at the Ball'. And it's a good thing. In fact, if you've got a 10-2-D Grip, it's the only thing! Through Impact, there is only Uncocking (Wrist Motion) and zero Roll (Hand Motion).

The quote from 4-D-0 (Release Motions) assumes the 10-2-B Grip (Left Wrist Vertical to the ground). Unlike the Release Motion required by the 10-2-D Grip (Wrist Motion only), the On Plane Uncocking of the Left Wrist (Wrist Motion) must be followed by the Roll of the #3 Accumulator Angle (Hand Motion). This Sequenced Release simultaneously returns the Left Wrist to Vertical and Squares the Clubface.

To alternatively square the Clubface by 'throwing' the Club past a Bending Left Wrist -- a Horizontal Wrist Motion -- is as disastrous as it is common. This is a different 'throw' -- ThrowAWAY! -- and it is far different than the Swinger's Release Wrist Throw (a Perpendicular Wrist Motion).

I hear you knockin' but you can't come in!
 

Thank you Eddie! Thank you Yoda! Thank you Tong! Thank you Chris!

I have been marginally retarded on 10-2-D for about 10 months. I knew there was something I was missing. Now I got it! Mission Complete!!!!

Bucket = Happy Dance!!!!!

Okay I've read all of the threads and now I'm very confused! ShouldI endeavor to use a 10-2-B? Why were you hitting "dying quail " shots? Becasue of 10-2-B?

Sorry but I'm not yet up to speed in deciphering all of the jargon yet.

Michael

One thing I really think I suffer from and would like to minimize is throwaway. Can the 10-2-D grip make throwaway more likely to occur?

Michael

If anything Michael, having a 10-2-D makes it harder to have improper impact alignments.

For my students with chronic throwaway problems, I always assign them some quality time chipping with a 10-2-D grip followed by a cross handed (10-1-E: strong right hand action cannot overpower the flat left wrist) grip.

Once mastered, impact fallout is almost impossible!

Bottom Line
 

Bottom line:

Go to Impact Fix (7-8 and 8-2) and take a Strong Single Action Grip (10-2-B).

As time goes by, you can skip Fix.

Why would anyone skip FIX??? Mr Kelly emphasized its importance.
:confused:

I think Tong was saying this after establishment of a proper grip.

But....
Through experience, Impact Fix can be established before a round for each club. It is not part of every pre-shot rountine during a round but can be if you like. I would never tell anyone NOT to do it. Experience with my clubs (driver/5i/wedge) and the ball position alerts my hands to 'Fix.'

I do go into Impact Fix with a tough shot or crummy lie before me.

hmmm.. maybe I do it all the time then. LOL