I know you're out there......
 

Ok...

I have a question. This requires ego's checked at the door.

Whom here - and let's be honest - worries while playing? Whether it be about people watching you and embarrassing yourself or missing that 4 footer to tie the nassau on the 17th.

Come on...I know you're out there.

I worry about everything from wondering about leaving the iron on to oh noooo the club captain is watching me hit this shot to does my bum look big? :D
I have to admit it used to be worse but I have realised that everyone is in the same boat and we are all worried about making a mess of things on the course. I am less of a worrier now and whilst I still get nervous I am more in control of it. Still make a mess of it though.......:D
Alex

I worry. About the shot at hand. Maybe worry isn't quite the right word. Now if I have a couple of bad shots in a row or as what usually happens withmy putting I burn the lip, lip out, etc. Then I become the mental midget on putting.

My last full round I used 42 putts (real putts, not the ones just off the green were not included). My average for the past 20 rounds is just a hair over 36 putts and I wonder why my handicap doesn't drop....

I worry cause the stroke is good, the results are that it just doesn't drop. And then I worry.

I think "fear" is a better word. Fear of missing that 4 footer or fear of choking in front of your peers in a tourney or fear of hitting it OB or whatever. Overcoming fear is the hardest mental part of the game. I think that anyone who has ever played in a tournament at any level has let fear, whether in the form of worry or doubt or just nervousness, creep into his or her game. I try to beat it by playing as many tourneys as I can and puting something on the line every time I play so I can trust my swing in any situation. Like they say the hardest shot in golf is 6 inches between the ears:)

I used to worry...but then I realized that I had no reason to worry. I went through a rather large funk several years ago where I found it very difficult to play tournament golf. This was due to a poor experience in my first Wisconsin State Amateur at age 17.

I shot 76-75 (par 70) the first two rounds to make the cut on the number. Throughout the third round, things just didn't feel right. I remember holing out from a greenside bunker for birdie on the ninth hole, then the trouble started. I hit a good drive down the 10th and...shanked my approach. Shaken up, I go to hit my third from about 60 yards...shank. 11th hole I hit a good drive and shank a wedge under a bush. 12th hole I hit a driver off the heel and into a lake. I started that back nine with scores of 6-7-8. I somewhat got a hold of myself, then shanked one on the par-3 17th. I recall birdieing the par-5 18th - my caddie asks me, "Are you going to lay up?" I said, "Are you kidding? I'm not going to hit two shots with irons into here. Give me my 3-wood." I hit it up there and made birdie to finish off an 86. Shot 83 the final round, scared over each shot.

From then on for several months I was literally frightened in tournament golf. Practice rounds I was fine, but it was always in the back of my mind what had happened and how quickly it could happen again. Now, I'm pretty much over it and try to simply have confidence in my procedure. I think to myself, "Matt, you're a 1-handicap. You can play golf. Now go out there and do it." A lot of this game is mental no doubt, and having confidence in your stroke pattern and ability to play the game will allow you to overcome a good deal of anxiety.

Chhhh Chhh Chicken
 

I'm a golf chicken! I don't get to play enough to develop trust. So I turn into a little girl.

If I go out and just act like a goofball, I play pretty good. But if I "try" look out . . . THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!! Run Forrest! Run!

Bucket (chicken)

Try giving Pia Nilsson's book "Every Shot Must Have a Purpose" a read. Good stuff there.

Fear
 

Fear - "concern over an outcome that has yet to happen". Based on this definition fear can't exist in the present. Thus the old adage to "stay in the moment".

Wish I could do that more than I do. I understand it, but my mind still has a tendency to wander more than it should. When I'm playing/scoring my best I really do stay in the moment, commited to my shot, my procedure, my decision, etc. When I'm off I can almost always look back and see indecision, concern about results, and so on. And it's always tougher in bigger tournaments for me.

I still love the game even if I do have some have some worries and fears. :)

Fear
 

I think that everything we do in life can be broken down into two categories. Want To's and Have To's. Fear is a HAVE TO. Think about it. Most people view their job as a HAVE TO. I have to go to work today or I'll loose my job. Or, I have to work to pay the bills. School: I have to get this paper done or I'll fail this course. Golf: I have to make this putt to break 80. The secret is to learn to turn have to's into want to's. Imagine the life we could lead, the success we could enjoy if we wanted to, not had to. Keep your mind working toward what to want to achieve, not what you are trying to avoid. BTW no one really cares how you are playing, they are all worrying about their own games. Make Golf and Life an Adventure in Achievement.

Fear and worry
 

EVERYONE feels it. It's how we deal with it that matters. I hunted North Vietnamese snipers for 3 years between 1969 and 1972. THAT is stress :cool: It has made me crazy for YEARS that I could handle that and still get wrapped around the axle standing on the first tee in front of a group of complete strangers. I am a student at The Professional Golfer's Career College in CA, and in my final semester. I play with a lot of scratch playing young kids who can hit it a mile (one of my playing buddies routinely drives a 320 yard slightly downhill par 4 with a 3 wood). I am older (56) and do NOT have a "traditional" golf swing due to some major physical limitations. When I started on the quest to find a swing that would allow me to play with my ruptured back and bad knees, I found parts of it. However, I found myself EXTREMELY concerned with what others would think of my form. Never mind the fact that it works for me, and I can usually play with most of these guys provided I get 3 or 4 a side. Never mind the fact that my short game tends to be excellent, and my putting is ALWAYS superb :D I step up to the first tee and think "I wonder what Joe thinks about my patched together, half back and awkward golf swing". It has plagued me the entire time I have been in school (I have also failed to pass the PAT 3 times because of this). Our "History Of Golf" teacher said something that has helped me tremendously. "We are going to study the greatest players in the game. NONE of them ever worried about what someone else thought about their swing. They found what worked for them and the heck with what anybody thought." Now, when I step on the tee in front of other people (always there are others there), the thought the calms me is "Great players don't give a DAMN what anyone else thinks"... it really helps. My swing trigger has become "Trust" as the last thought in me head before I take the club back.

The other thing that has helped me tremendously is Pia Lindstrom's book "Every Shot Must Have a Purpose". BUY IT. it is worth about 100 times the cover price.

For those of you who have trouble over short putts, I would recommend reading the putting forum stuff, including my humble post about how to learn to putt :D .

The thought that will help a lot of you standing over a short putt is 'Where else COULD it go, except in the hole????" :p

Walk in Beauty,

Obi WunPutt

You are a CREDIT to this FORUM! For your dedication and service to our great country I am truly grateful. Doesn't matter if you stand on your head with your pants down on the first tee . . . YOU ARE A HERO!!!!

The heck with those young bucks! The ball don't care how you look when you hit. Homer gave us the Imperatives. You have given us MUCH MUCH more . . .

And for that thank you!

Bucket

Fear and Worry - reprise
 

Thank you for your kind words. However, I was not a hero, but I served with many.



WRT standing on my head with my pants down on the first tee, do you think that would help?????????? I'm kinda new to this TGM thing......:D

Obi WunPutt

Depends on what you had for breakfast . . .:rolleyes:

THANK YOU EVERYONE!!!!!!

For being Honest and sharing your experiences, failures, triumphs and hopes....

Me? I have what I have identified as an anxiety issue. I am a perfectionist. When I get mad, I fear nothing. But....

I sure as hell fear hitting a bad shot - even by myself on the range. No one watching. Just me. Only me. Shank. I suck. Dont do it again. Dammit, dont! Release!!!!! Shank. Push. Pull. Fade. Hook. Top. Fat, Thin.

Point is...I can tell myself to stay in the moment as much as I want. But you, as well as I, know....especially in a tournament...my worst nightmare...isnt topping it. Its worrying.

So....how do we conquer it?

I have the answer. Anyone else?

And lastly - fo FRED. Thank you. My father was in Nam, as my cousin in Baghdad (recon). I appreciate all you have done - no - sacrificed. I truely do. I hope one day we can meet - only for me to say thank you - and a quick hug. And I am not messing. Anytime you want to talk - 302-299-9466. Anytime - night, day, whenever. My name is Patrick, and I owe you -and gentlemen like you - my freedom. Thank you sir. Sincerely.

Worrying
 

Hi Patrick,
Thanks for the thanks. You are WELCOME.

Now, on to the rest. It is CRITICAL that you read Pia Lindstrom's Every Shot Must Have a Purpose. It is also critical that you understand the source of your worry. I suggest (I am not a shrink), that your issue is one of self-image. You are perhaps attaching too much importance to your performance on the golf course or the range. Performance anxiety can cause you to wilt under pressure (sorry couldn't resist)...:cool:

Anyway, If you continue to associate your self worth with whether or not you made a good shot or a bad shot, it isn't going to get any better. You need to practice this, and perhaps the way to practice is to practice NOT CARING. Go to the range with a large bucket and play your favorite course in your mind. Hit each shot with full attention and then forget it. Go to a golf course and play 18 holes without every writing down a score. Go to the putting green and hit putts at imaginary holes and don't pay anything more than the slightest attention to whether you even got close or not,.

You are NOT playing for the freedom of the Western World. :D A week from now no one, including you will ever care what you shot today, or whether you hit one in the water on 15 or whether you topped two drives in a row last Saturday to lose the match by one stroke. NO ONE GIVES A DARN, so why should you?

THE GREAT PLAYERS NEVER WORRY ABOUT WHAT OTHERS THINK OF THEM, THEIR GOLF SWING OR THEIR SCORE. That is the truth of the matter.

YOU ARE NOT YOUR GOLF SWING, AND YOU ARE NOT YOUR GOLF SCORE. You are a human being with feelings and value far beyond whatever happens with that damn little white ball.

Try hitting balls blindfolded. Have a friend tee them up for you on a mat (so there is some consistency of set up) and hit a large bucket without ever getting to look where the ball goes. Get yourself to the point that you not only can't look at it, but can't possibly be concerned with how it looks, because you aren't going to get to look at it anyway. If you can do that for an hour without ever asking where it went, or taking off the blindfold, you will be on your way to getting past this.

EVERYONE, and I mean EVERYONE hits it sideways once in a while. I stood at the 17th green at Pebble Beach and watched Jack Nicklaus hit two chip shots from 5 feet off the green because he muffed the first one so badly it barely left its spot. It wasn't a tough shot, he just screwed it up. Walter Hagen (the BEST match play player EVER) said he expected to hit 7 bad shots in every round. So when he hit one, it was just one of those 7.

EVERYONE plays BAD GOLF. Jimmy Demaret, when told that Jack Nicklaus played great golf said, "Don't be stupid, Jack just plays bad golf better than the rest of us."

Take care and quit attaching WHO you are to WHAT your last shot looks like.

Walk In Beauty,

Obi WunPutt

You are on to something here. I read you should "TRY EASY not TRY HARD." It is tough though to not give a crap. We end up WORKING the game instead of PLAYING.

To me getting out of your on way is huge . . . but how do you do it and do it more often?

I've read all the books man and I still get up in the fetal position like a little girl.

Another "solution" that I found interesting was . . . stand behind the shot and ask yourself "How many times out of 10 can I hit hit an acceptible shot in this situation?" Self answers "7 out of 10 times 70%." So why am I nervous about a shot I can execute at an acceptible level 70% of the time? Shouldn't I be just 30% nervous?

Bucket is full of chicken . . . among other stuff.

Worrying 30% is still worrying. In the world of shooting and in agility training (and soon skydiving) I teach a class called "The Art of Getting Out of Your Own Way". When you do that, the RESULT means NOTHING. |The PROCESS is everything. Furthermore, the very existance of worry is the absence of trust. I use "trust" as the swing trigger when I am playing well. Do I ALWAYS remember to do that? No, but when I do, the results are sometimes staggeringly beautiful.

A couple of "tricks" if you will. Have someone else keep score, announce your score to that person when you pick your ball out of the hole and then let it go. If you aren't sitting in a cart staring at the score card, it's easier to forget. Second, go out and play a round of golf from the forward tees with your 5 iron and your putter. There are certain things you simply CANNOT do with those two clubs (like hit is 275 over the lake off a hanging lie) so you don't try. You might find you have a LOT of fun doing this, and what's more, you will learn to trust your decision making process more, because you will HAVE to play by feel.

Obi WunPutt

Good point on the 30%!!!

Got any notes on the "Art of Getting Out of the Way Class?"

Hocus Focus
 

While I have not read Pia Lindstrom's book, the best book as it relates to the mental side of the game, I have come accross is Dr. Gio Valiante's book "Fearless Golf". It is a MUST read and I stress MUST. I will put it in my Top 10 Golf Books of All-Time (My golf library is well over a thousand books with quite a few on "the grey-matter"). Do yourself a favor and get a copy. You will never look at yourself the same way again.

I have done clinics with Bob Rotella and Robert Winters, but Dr. Valiante's book change more about the way I think then I ever thought possible. You will learn how to check you Ego at the door and overcome your fears through Self-Efficacy. Couple a strong mind with your Machine and who knows how far you can go.

The Art of Getting Out of Your Own Way
 

Yes, there is a book that goes with the agility class. I am not sure how easily one can relate it to golf, although I did, at one time, have a golf version thereof. When you are training to shoot rifles at extreme distances (1000+ yards) you learn to fire between your heartbeats because your pulse through the sling on your arm is enough to throw your aim off at that range. This becomes truly tested when others are shooting back at you. You learn to actually slow your heart rate consciously.

The one thing that I can "tip" to is this. When we are stressed, we say "Take a deep breath", but we breathe from our chest instead of our stomach. This does nothing to improve the exchange of oxygen and actually causes additional build up of CO2 in the bottom of your lungs, which is where the primary transfer of O2 to your blood stream takes place. The increase in CO2 causes your heart beat to rise, which causes you to breath faster in order to effect a better O2 transfer, which causes your heart to beat faster because, once again, you are not breathing properly. When you wish to relax you should take a breath that causes your stomach to expand as though you are swelling with pregnancy. Your chest doesn't move AT ALL. If you practice breathing like this, then a couple of these breaths go a LONG way to reducing the tension in your body.

More as time permits. I must go do my homework for school [-o<

Obi WunPutt

Don't Worry Hero!
 

Fred

Help is on it's way just keep your knees packet in ice. Keep your Back very very loose and your mind in your hands. Before you know it you will be hitting ropes! And I do mean ropes Your Golf Stroke will appear right before your eyes like a little fairy taie Sprinkling Fairy dust on you. I know this because I played with you and I was watching your golf stroke. A Better way to say it is I was studing you golf swing. With the Ailing aliments that you have. I must say shooting 39 on the front and another ?? on the back nine. Your realliy not to far away. From passing the PAT those young guns will be saying who is that Guy He hits it like those TGMER over on that Lynn Blake Golf website. WOW :cool: If, I may say so self say you are a good canidate for a HITTER! Maybe a (4 barrel hitter)Only a few have sucucced. Trust me, our paths will cross again in Riverside County area. Pactice your short shots and keep loading your club then give it the old Ben Doyle style Put a quarter between you buns and when someone ask for change bust it out. two dimes and a nickle ( Ben Hogan did that too) Give it the old whallop. Ball gets the message and your passing the PAT with 72/72 Then the PAT is out of the way
Ball Turf is out and No I did not need this post for number XXX

See you at TCI or Eagle Glen buzz me so I can watch.

Ball Turf Out!

Hi all...

Thanks for the suggestions...

However...

What exactly is anxiety?

You are too good to me, my friend, thank you for the encouragement. Hopefully the verdamt book will start to make sense to me soon. I am FRUSTRATED right now because I am hitting it really well about 20% of the time and I don't FEEL the difference when I don't hit it well. If I can just get to the point where, when I hit a bad shot, or top it 20 yards, I KNOW what the difference is, then I can improve. That is what works for me and I am fighting that right now.

Walk In Beauty, we will cross paths again,

Obi WunPutt

High Anxiety
 

Anxiety is the worry or fear about what hasn't happened yet. It manifests itself in increased heart rate, increased muscle tension, turning off the thought centers in your head. All of this is called the "fight or flight syndrome". When you are standing over that little white ball and all you can think about is the lake off to the right, you have anxiety. When notice the lake and then it disappears from your mind because all you can see is your ball sitting in the middle of the fairway out about 265, you don't have anxiety.

You must learn, through practice, just as you practice the mechanics of the golf swing, to see what is GOOD out there and not what is BAD. Your subconscious cannot tell the difference between what is real and what is vividly imagined. It will do WHATEVER IT CAN to make what you "see" come true. If you see success and TRUST YOURSELF, you will succeed. If you see your ball going in the water, and it is a real image in your head, I don't care what swing thought you have, your subconscious is going to say "What PhillyGolf wants is to have his ball splash just about THERE" and it's going there, my friend.

Practice visualizing the outcome you want and ignoring, not even given a passing credence, to the outcome you don't want. One of the things that helps me a lot is to look at whomever I am playing with and say "Ok, this is starting out at that tree on the right of the fairway and drawing back into the middle." For me vocalizing what I want makes it more "real" to me and makes it easier to do. Then I just go hit the shot.

Does it work all the time ? No, does it work more often than not YES. Is it a LOT better than saying "Deal Lord, don't let me hit it in the water?" YES IT IS.[-o<

Training your golf brain is just as important as training your golf muscles. If you envision success rather than failure you will succeed more often than fail, and then you will succeed more often because it becomes easier to envision success, because you have already done so successfully. It's called builiding confidence.

Just as when I stand over a 4 foot putt, regardless of the "need" to sink it. The idea that I might miss NEVER crosses my mind. Do I make every 4 footer I ever stand over? I don't remember ever having missed one :p :p THAT IS THE KEY.

Hope this helps,

Obi WunPutt

Speaking of anxiety - what sort of mechanisms do you employ to control it? I'm of the opinion that it cannot be suppressed, but it can be managed.

Agreed.

It's an involuntary physical response to something wrong, or something your brain perceives as wrong.

It's there to protect you basically....I think your brain puts your body on edge so you're ready to react.

We need Carey in here...

suppression and management
 

I don't think you can eliminate anxiety, because, in the final analysis, it means you CARE about what's happening. What you can do is manage it. FIRST you have to admit that it's there. That is harder for some people to do than you might think.

Second, you CAN control your autonomic reflexes (those things like breathing and heart rate) It takes practice, primarily visualization and association work which can be taught (I can go into extreme detail if someone wants). When you SMILE, your face is not tense, it is relaxed. Smiling helps, and the only thing that we do that has been proven to break a state of tension in our bodies is to laugh. I don't think the "what's the worst thing that could possibly happen here" question/method works particularly well. I think the "OK, I am UPTIGHT about this, now let's relax, consciously, relax" works much better.

In a former life, when married to the Evil Princess, I was a road musician, and would get physically ill before every performance. It just showed I CARED. It is not unnatural to feel anxious about something. But how you handle it is to recognize it, and then control what your body is doing with the anxiety, and it will go away.

Obi WunPutt

All,
With all due respect....

Does not one of you feel that anxiety can be reversed?

Just curious.

My next post will be elaborate - but first, please, think about anxiety...how it is acquired....


Please.

Anxiety
 

Philly,

Now that's an interesting question - "how is anxiety acquired?". How about lack of preparation?

Comet

I don't think it can be eliminated.....Anxiety as a feeling anyway.....but if your confidence in your skills "outweighs" your doubts, and you have the resources, everything is going well, etc. I think it can manifest itself positively.....more as energy than anxiety (assuming you think of anxiety in the way people normally think of anxiety- negatively, that is). I guess that's what happens when you're in the zone.

Anxiety is your mind readying your body for something.

I think it only becomes negative if we attach something negative to it (with our thinking.....or doubts that stem from certain things- bad experiences that are hard to shake, a chain of failures, etc.....doubts that initiate thinking)....if we're not prepared for the anxiety.....not "up to the task."

....

As I've learned anyway, anxiety can be reduced. You have to know how though.

Things that have worked for me:

-first step usually (along with Clear Key): deep breath.....sometimes I get tense and start breathing very shallow or not enough.

-occupying the conscious mind....with Clear Key...this is huge, IMO. In my experiences, the quickest way to reduce anxiety is to simply get whatever is fueling it off your mind. Negative thoughts fuel it.....trying to figure it out fuels it.....any conscious thought that adds to anxiety. This can be a tough pill to swallow....but next time you catch yourself thinking (err- worrying) about something just sing a song to yourself or something. If it starts up again.....supress it again with the same song. Keep doing it.

-stay within your style. If nothing else works....and I'm having trouble getting my mind off something, I usually just concede to not trying so hard and to getting back to my Craftsman style (easygoing). This is my last step because I figure that if my mind if completely off something (non-conscious) I'll likely fall back into my style pattern anyway. I dunno if this is consistent with what Carey would say but it makes sense to me.

-to reduce physical tension and release stress: take a short breath through your nose, overgrip your club, hold breath for a few seconds, release...start Clear Key and execute shot.

This stuff is from Carey Mumford's book...The Double Connexxion.....I really would recommend getting it.

http://doubleconnexion.com/

Could you go into detai on that Fred?? I won't obligate you to EXTREME detail as you said.....nonono sir(ee-Bob).....

...MEGA detail will be good enough!!!!

OK, controlling autonomic responses
 

The first thing that you need to understand is that everything in our bodies can be controlled by visualization. But there is a leap of faith that must happen before you can actually do these things. The minute you think "this is stupid" or "this can't possibly work" it won't. I am working on a golf version Of my book 'The Art of Getting Out Of Your Own Way", which is about exercising control over your levels of excitement.

Here is the first exercise. (we will add one exercise or two a week until the series is complete):p

Lie on your back on the floor. Put a HEAVY book, such as an unabridged dictionary on your stomach. Breath in through your nose and out through your mouth so that the book raises and lowers without your chest rising and falling. This is the proper way to breath. As you do this and it becomes more and more natural, focus on how your breath feels going in and out of your lungs. The key is FOCUS on this, to the exclusion of all other sensations.

When you can do this without the book as a guide, and do it on demand, let me know and we will do stage 2.

By the Way, this is a GREAT way to get yourself to fall asleep at night if you are having trouble with that. It is a major relaxation exercise.

FWIW, when I was in 'Nam and firing a rifle at long distances (1000-1200 yds), I learned to fire in between my heart beats, because otherwise your pulse will throw your aim off. So bear with me, what I am talking about here REALLY works. It would be better if we could sit and work through these exercises together, but unless you all want to show up in Hemet for a seminar, that is unlikely :rolleyes:

Lemme know when you have this down cold, and we will continue.

Obi WunPutt

great post
 

so what happens when you birdie a difficult hole nad bogey the next without changing your emotional level..that is staying even keel..or do you need to celebrate a little i'm pretty good and being able to disconnect and focus only at what i'm trying to accomplish and don't beat myself up when i doesn't pan out

The times that I get "worried (nervous)" is when I am in an intense situation for the 1st time. (1st tee of a big event, first 2 putt to win a tournament, ect) But that's what I live for, the "butterflies", and it is especially satisfying to "come through" when it's crunch time. Just my 2 cents.

We need to attach all the positive emotions we can to the good stuff and simply let the bad stuff go. It is MORE than OK to celebrate the good shots, the birdies, the chip ins (had two today), and to invest emotion in those feelings. That is what builds confidence for when you need it later.

Obi WunPutt.

so is any one
 

ready for step #2 in this process?

Obi WunPutt

Working my way through Pia Nilssen's book at the moment but I have been reading up on this thread, so give us step 2. I am quite interested in this.
Thanks,
Alex

Will do. By the way, pay the $65.00 for the DISC analysis, it is stunningly accurate if you are honest when you fill it out. I re-read my notes from that about three times a week right now. GREAT BOOK.

Obi WunPutt

This don't work for some body types.