Augusta Controversy
 

Anyone pick up the latest Golf Digest and read Jack and Arnie's comments about the latest changes at Augusta National?

Offsite link - http://www.golfdigest.com/majors/mas...tachanges.html

From pgatour.com
Augusta National Course Changes

Augusta National underwent several changes following the 2005 Masters Tournament, with six holes -- Nos. 1, 4, 7, 11, 15 and 17 -- receiving updates.

The Masters tees of the aforementioned six holes were moved back anywhere from 10 to 40 yards, increasing the legendary course's yardage from 7,290 yards to 7,445.

In addition to the lengthening process, trees were added to the fairways on Nos. 1, 7 and 11; the fairways of Nos. 11 and 15 were shifted to the left; and the No. 7 green was re-grassed, creating the opportunity for groundskeepers to set up a possible right-rear pin position.

The modifications are not the first in Augusta National's history. Below is a list of the other significant changes that have taken place at the course, dating back to when it was founded.


Year Change

• 1931 Land is purchased for Augusta National Golf Club. Alister Mackenzie and Robert T. Jones are asked to design the course.
• 1932 Club opens in December.
• 1933 Formal opening takes place in January.
• 1935 Front and back nines are reversed.
• 1949 Ike's Pond is created.
• 1955 Bridge at No. 15 is dedicated as the 'Gene Sarazen Bridge.'
• 1958 Par 3 course is created. Bridges are dedicated to Ben Hogan (hole No. 12) and Byron Nelson (hole No. 13).
• 1974 Feldspar sand is introduced in the bunkers.
• 1978 Bentgrass greens added to the Par 3 course.
• 1981 All greens on Augusta National are converted to bentgrass. A heating and cooling system is added to the green at No. 12.
• 1990 Fixed the damaged caused by floods to the greens at No. 11 and 12, and the members tee at No. 13.
• 1992 New practice green is built.
• 1999 The second cut of grass along the fairway is increased to 1 3/8 inch.
• 2002 Tees on nine holes are either redesigned or lengthened. Several fairways and bunkers were altered. Course yardage was increased to 7,270.
• 2003 Tee on No. 5 and fairway bunkers are extended approximately 80 yards toward the green. The hole now measures 455 yards.
• 2004 Pine trees added to the right side of the fairway on No. 11. Green on No. 13 is rebuilt and heating/cooling systems are installed.

* Source: Augusta National Golf Club.

What do you think?

Thanks,

Bagger

Fix the ball, not the courses.

I second that. The Masters Committee are one of the few organisations is golf powerful enough to introduce a new ball.

I vote for a "Masters Ball" with the classic tee locations

It's absolutely ridiculous......in their effort to keep the longer guys in line they're just making everything out of reach for the mid to shorter guys....

So dumb.

Thet need to make the course more normal....I'm not a short hitter but I can still see that's dumb.....

Make it favor accuracy, ballstriking more.....and favor raw, caveman power less.

There's really no way you can take the advantage away from the long hitters (especially the ones that are also good ballstrikers) but this just gives them MORE......a course should make you question whether or not you want to take the RISK of bombing it.....

There should be more than one best way to play most holes.

Course changes
 

Would you rather see a six foot crown on the greens? Or how about ten yard wide fairways AND 8" DEEP rough. Better yet, 30 foot deep bunkers. Better still, 18 Island greens.

In other words, it's a TV show. 4 hours on Sunday. Only one guy can win, get it done. A ten way tie can last six hours. That won't do. One guy has to stand out and lead to win. That's TV law.

Driving the ball long is what the average golfer and TV viewer is all about.

It's all about tee boxes. You get to choose which tee box you play from, you don't get to choose which green you aim to.

What compression ball? 60? 80?... Can you imagine all of the variables. Do you really think a fair ball can exist?

Imagine this. Tiger drives the new ball 260 yards. XYZ player drives the ball 240 yards. Then Tiger uses a 9 iron to hit the ball 125 yards and XYZ player uses an 8 iron to hit the ball 145yards. Hmm? I'm exited, are you? The average weight of a tour player will rise to 240 lbs and be able to bench press 400lbs. And, they will all have Moe Normans swing.

Hmm?? Here's another nightmare...If the PGA adopts a lower compression ball, then can all of the women and all of the seniors play on the same tour??????????????????????????????

I say a new policy is needed. ALL GOLF COURSES MUST HAVE AN ADDITIONAL 50 ACRES SURROUNDING THEM JUST IN CASE THEY NEED TO BE LENGTHENED.

It must stop. Take the course back to pre-2002 and

a) disallow lofts below 20 degrees until figured out what to do about the ball.

or

b) add a penalty of 1 stroke for all teeshots longer than 300 yards until figured out what to do about the ball.

or

c) whatever

but it must stop.

Played there once in '82, lost my balls
 

I had the pleasure of playing there in 82 with a member who was on active duty in the Army (son of member if I remember correctly). He flew us up to Augusta from Fort Benning (helicopter pilot, getting flight time) and I got to play the front 9 with him paying for rental clubs and all. I lost about 16 balls in 9 holes and didn't appreciate the gift of playing the course until much later in life.

I have also been fortunate to be at Augusta during the event 3 times (lived there for about 5 years and had a home on Washington Road across town in Evans which is about 6 miles from Augusta National). One of my old employees has a son that works the pro shop and got me in for the final round 3 years in a row (cool perk). Through the military, I got in 2 years in a row to the early rounds.

Until changes are made to A) the ball, B) the equipment, or C) both, the courses will have to change to keep players challenged and viewers interested. Short of placing Rotweillers on each tee box, the folks that own these courses need to be able to change with the times.

While I think the changes do alter the historical perspective of the course, I think they are needed to keep the "historical" challenge of the Master's alive. There is only so much they can do without making these changes. The greens are already hard as a rock, sloped and tiered (Georgia clay is great). Their next alternative is to place more trees, higher rough, and finally lengthen some holes.

I certainly understand Jack N's comments especially since I watched him play Arnie on Shell's WWofG last night. While long, not terribly long, and certainly, neither Jack nor Arnie are as accurate as many of today's tour players. I mean face it, these guys today hit 8 hour approaches on par 5's and kick themselves if they are off line by 3 yards.

Face it, times change.

By the way, I did meet both Arnie and Jack at a celebrity tourney in Myrtle Beach (in 77 or 78) while working for a large hotel chain there. Both really nice and got autograph from Jack which was really cool. I didn't play then and started because they were both so nice and gracious. We were volunteered (use the term loosely) to help out on a Saturday by the hotel and they made a point of talking to many of us during the day which is why I "love" this game and the folks associated with it.

I mean, take this site for instance. Where else can you go and get "premium" intel on the Golfing Machine and discuss the ins and outs for free? Awesome.

The "race to the bottom"

Imagine if they allowed baseball to use new bats and a ball that traveled farther and straighter.

Would we rebuild all the fields in the country, every local school and park and major and minor league ball park to fix the problem?

Of course not - IT WOULD BE A WASTE OF RESOURCES

And this world is short on resources. No need to use what we have inefficiently. A lot of people don't seem to get that.

There is a 'bigger picture' - The "Whole Picture" - see 2-R ;)

O c'mon don't exagerate...Tiger hitting it 260???.....no one said they should roll it back THAT far...

I hate that "if we change some things, when will it stop?" argument....

Ok.....not excited eh? SO no Masters tournaments were exciting b4 this explosion in distance?

....

No one wants them to shift in that direction either (OVERLY ridiculously long rough....OVERLY narrow fairways...hitting iron off EVERY tee.....etc.).....either end of the spectrum is just ridiculous......

What they need to find is a balance somewhere in the middle. To better accomodate more styles of play....and make these guys think a little before they just hammer it up there on every hole.

Long hitters will always have the advantage anyway....and rightly so.....but they should give em a little harder time.....some risk vs. reward....SOME wide open holes......SOME more guarded holes...

...

All they are doing by lengthening the course is alienating some players....they aren't stopping anything or getting in the way of any of the longer hitters (those guys are licking their chops).....they're just taking some guys outta competition and trying to lower the winning score (which is another thing that really bugs me.....oh boo hoo hoo Augusta got ripped up.....go cry).

Hmm???
 

Who exactly is the "they" you are referring to? Martians perhaps? Is there some wonderfully new technology that can make your wishes come true? I don’t know of any. And what do you mean 260 yards for Tiger..... What the hell do you think Jack is talking about anyway??? Jack wants a ball that the average player can still hit 250 yards, but that even the biggest hitters can't hit past 260. Variable core material compression. If you hit the ball hard enough, then the inner core spreads like mashed potatoes. The ball can't go farther than the outer cores can rebound. I can't explain it in technical terms, but thats what I heard and read and that is what Jack wants.

260 yards for Tiger is what you said in your post.....is that what Jack said???

Are you sure?

If true then I don't agree with that...(if true).

...

BY "THEY" I mean THEY who set up the golf courses.

Obviously! (duh! duh! ;))

Puppets!
 

There is no way Jack and Arnie make those comments without the express consent of Augusta National. They are paving the way for a "Masters" ball.

We know Jack is in favor of it. But "ruined the course" is not something Hootie would approve of.

It's all relative
 

Everyone tees it up from the same spot and plays the same coures so who cares about any of this? All golfers have the same equipment and balls. It's all relative. The best guy wins today and the the best guy won 30 years ago. Create a "Masters ball" and the best guy will win again.

If they want to favor long hitters, keep the rough low. If they want to favor accuracy let it grow! Rough is a great neutralizer. :cool:

The course has been wet pretty much every year since the lastest major changes were made. Wait until they get some windy/dry conditions. :o

re: Augusta changes-again
 

My view on Augusta is simple and based on my golf experience.
I play with a long hitter regularly.He swings 2 clubs less on every shot.We have played over 300 rounds together in the last 10 years and I win 60% of them.Why and how?I don't care what he has in his hand first of all .After the tee shot he has to make the next shot because I'm tight from 140yds in.I hit my 7 iron as high and as long as he hits his 9 iron.(It's only numbers on a club!)
If I really want to mess him up I take our next game(we alternate) to a short,tight course(6200)where his power game is restricted.
Now,if you can see where I'm going with this,good,because the only way to bring the rest of the field back into the game is to keep the course short.The power hitters cannot run away with it because everyone on tour has as good a short game.Personally,I'd set up the course for the likes of Jeff Sluman and let everyone else sweat their club selection.After all, if they all make it in two,the odds favour no one.

I aggree...the funny thing is
Isn't that the very reason they lengthened courses so a guy called Tiger wouldn't overdominated everyone on "short" courses?
They complain when it's too short. Complain when it's too long. Just face it. He's the best.

JFrank

I like your thinking. I enjoy playing with guys that drive the ball 300. I enjoy taking their money too. I make them bet closest to the pin. That shuts them up.

I always thought that by lengthening the course and growing the rough that the course settup people were reducing Tigers advantage. The other day, I was watching the Golf Channel (oops) and someone said that by lengthening the course and growing the rough, they gave him an advantage. Which is it? I believe that on any given day Tiger can win on any Golf Course under any conditions. It's purely up to him.

The problem is Television. I would love to see a shorter course so that two or more (the more the better) players are in a play-off. The player with the best control of his game, nerves and swing will win. Very exciting. However this could take much more time than Television Broadcasting Companies allow. It' also nerve-racking on the viewers too.

I wonder if this holds up to # of playoffs per season from 1925 til today.

I think it's an advantage....cause the longer guys can hit 7 iron while the shorter guys hit 4 or 5 or w/e.

Lengthening the course does NOTHING but eliminate the shorter guys, IMO.

I agree!
 

I followed Tiger around at the '96 Texas Open. I was about 20 feet from him when he hit a 265yd 2-iron, uphill to about 4 feet. The shot was higher than my PW!

I want to see these guys hit long irons into greens, especially in the majors.

At my home course we have 3 par threes over 200 yds at the tips. One plays 235yds and when the wind is up I can't get there with a 3 wood. I was on the box the other day thinking a PGA guy is probably hitting 5 irons from where I was hitting 5 wood. I like it when those guys are challenged.

What do folks think the Masters would look like if they used the 'new' course as it stands, but with a 'Master's' ball that is equal in performance to the Titleist Professional 100 of 1980 (but with a better cover and manufacturing process to eliminate the out of round, and torn cover potential these had).

And as an added bonus, now take away square grooves as Miller has suggested.....

It would read: Par 78 Rating 77.2 Slope 155 Length 7400 yards+. Bring plenty to drink.

So far the short guys are doin pretty good eh?

Crenshaw's even in there.

These greens are f-a-s-t. This is a great tournament so far. I have been viewing it in wide-screen high definition. First time in a golf Tournament I think.

In our previous posts we talked more about distance changes. It seems to me that the greens are giving players more trouble.

I'm seeing a lot of missed shots and some bad decisions. I think the tournament hype has gotten to their heads. However it is a very difficult course. Very.

Damn straight. Too many people forget or ignore the fact that the shorter guys are also using the new technology. Too often I hear arguments without any statistical evidence. Anyone have some figures on just how much more dominant the long pro's of today are than the bombers of yesteryear :confused:

Create a "masters ball" and no way can it be a level playing field =;

One approach is to look at the grooves on the clubs.
It penalizes inaccuracy off the tee even more, and makes it much harder to hit those wedges close to those tucked pins.

Seems as though ANGC is playing atypically tough this week.

Player Comments
 

The comments I heard by players after they played the course were all positive. If the ball is changed to go SHORTER... they can always move the tees up.