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Yoda 04-26-2006 11:24 AM

Magic Of The Right Forearm / Elbow Action
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brianmanzella
The FROZEN right right and the LOCKED left wrist would, in real world situations, be a HITTING prodecure, no? :oops:


Are the Frozen Right Wrist and the Locked Left Wrist Hitting procedures? That would definitely be the traditional view. Hitting is all about Muscle Power, Thrust and Structure, and the terms 'Frozen' and 'Locked' -- while jarringly hard -- seem right at home in that environment. At the same time, they are at odds with the "soft hands" and "flexible wrists" widely viewed as the Swinger's birthright. So much so, in fact, that to suggest otherwise is revolutionary (if not heretical).

But then Homer Kelley was that kind of guy.

As discussed in my previous post, the term 'Locked' -- Webster: "rendered immovable" -- was slated for Homer's 7th edition. It denotes only that the Left Wrist -- other than in the Standard Adjusted Address (10-9-A) -- is 'Locked' into its Flat condition, i.e., it cannot produce any Horizontal Motion (Bending or Arching). Instead, it can produce only Perpendicular Motions (Wrist Cocking and Uncocking) and Rotational Motions (Turning and Rolling). To that extent, the Left Wrist may be considered 'Unlocked.' This 'Left Wrist Locked (in its Flat condition)' may be a tough concept for Swingers to handle, but to the extent they deviate from that precision alignment, quoting Homer, "They will pay a price."

The word 'frozen' is no doubt even more controversial. What could be 'tighter' or 'harder' or more the antithesis of the lyrical Swinging Motion than something that is 'frozen?' So much so, that Homer himself had a hard time applying the term to Swingers early on. But as he came to a full understanding of the importance of the Flying Wedge Alignments and Structure (6-B-3-0-1), his view changed -- I have this discussion on tape -- and he came to believe that the Frozen Right Wrist serves Swingers equally well as Hitters. From the Third Edition's 10-18-0 'General' Section (applying to both Hitters and Swingers):

"...the Right Wrist, if it moves at all, moves in accord with the Left Wrist. Ideally, it should be frozen in its Impact Fix Position -- preferably from the Top of the Stroke to well into, or through, the Follow-Through." [Bold by Yoda.]

The term 'frozen' -- Webster: "rendered immobile" -- denotes that the Right Wrist is 'locked' -- that word again -- in its Level and Bent condition. In other words, it cannot produce any Perpendicular Motion or any Horizontal Motion (other than its Impact Fix Degree of Bend). Instead, it can produce only Rotational Motions (Turn and Roll). To the extent the Right Wrist deviates from that Frozen condition, the Clubface will be misaligned at Impact.

The bottom line is that, as usual, Homer said exactly what he meant in terms that were unmistakably clear. Through Impact, your Left Wrist must be Flat, Level and Vertical, and your Right Wrist must be Bent, Level and Vertical. The best way to achieve this Ideal Impact Alignment is to permit during the Stroke only Left Wrist Perpendicular and Rotational Motions and Right Wrist Rotational Motions. And the way you do that is to Lock your Left Wrist in its Flat Condition and Freeze your Right Wrist into its Bent and Level condition early in the Stroke and then maintain those conditions until the end of the Follow-Through.

Interestingly, I have thus far not mentioned Grip Pressure. That is because, within limits, Gripping ‘light’ or ‘tight’ is the player’s option. What matters is that the essential Wrist Conditions be maintained throughout the Stroke. And that requires a highly developed kinesthetic sense of Wrist Alignments, not necessarily a tight Grip.

That said, the Hands are best viewed as strong, Educated Clamps attaching the Club to the Arms. Per 1-L #3, there should be “no wobble in the Clubshaft attachment.” The player with Uneducated Hands might do well with a lighter Grip Pressure because he may then be less likely to ‘horse’ the Club out of the correct alignments that Centrifugal Force is trying its best to produce.

The skilled player, on the other hand, can use the tighter Grip Pressure to give his Educated Hands a more complete control of the Club throughout the Stroke. The Tight Grip is especially effective as resistance against the terrific forces of Impact Deceleration. Remember, per Isaac Newton’s Third Law (2-C-0), the Ball hits the Club just as hard as the Club hits the Ball. Said another way, and summing up this entire discussion…

Impact is a place for Science, not “Seems as ifs.”

Yoda 04-26-2006 11:35 AM

Magic Of The Right Forearm / Elbow Action GM#4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tball
Yoda, while you do not mention grip pressure, can you speak to the effect of grip positioning relative to the hitting procedure. I am a hitter by nature, but often struggle when the grip moves out of the fingers and more towards the palm. Did Homer ever speak to this issue, or is it more of a personal preference?


Tball,

For the record, while I didn't present an exhaustive analysis, three of the last four paragraphs of my prior post addressed Grip Pressure. :oops::oops:

Regarding your specific question, please answer the following questions:

1. Where is this slippage of the Club occurring -- Left Hand or Right Hand or both?

2. When is it occurring, e.g. at the Top? Release? Impact?

2. What Basic Grip are you using, e.g., 10-1-A (Overlap) or 10-1-D (Interlock)?

3. What Grip Type are you using, e.g. 10-2-B (Strong Single Action), 10-2-D (Strong Double Action), or one of the other five Types.

4. What is your current perceived Grip Pressure, light or tight? Does that pressure change markedly during the Stroke?

5. What is your current skill level, i.e., single-digit handicap, double-digit but below 18, or dreaded 'other.'
Topic:Tom Tomasello

Yoda 04-26-2006 01:58 PM

Magic Of The Right Forearm / Elbow Action GM#7
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EdZ
Yoda - would agree with the 'image' and 'feel' that once the hands find their proper alignments, it is as if they are lightly wrapped in an ace bandage, from the wrists and around the hands. That it is this entire 'unit' that is rolled (swingers) and/or the cross line hitting motion (hitters)


The Hands in their correct alignments absolutely operate as a precisely coordinated unit. Only by doing so are they able to maintain the alignments and structure of the Flying Wedges Assembly (6-B-3-0-1).

For lighter Grip Pressures, your 'gauze' analogy is effective as far as it goes. I would suggest first wrapping the Right Hand, Wrist and Forearm separately -- better yet, put it in a cast (my personal Feel) -- to preclude any vertical or horizontal motions. It is also important that the 'gauze' not prevent the Left Wrist's Vertical Cocking and Uncocking Motions. Finally, to help a student find his own ideal Grip Pressure, I would suggest the student experiment with even tighter 'wraps.'

Yoda 04-26-2006 02:10 PM

Magic Of The Right Forearm / Elbow Action GM#9
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tongzilla
Yoda,

1. I've read a few of your posts on wrist positions. You emphasize the fact that the right wrist NEVER cocks. I just don't understand how I can cock my left wrist WITHOUT cocking my right. It's just not possible!

2. Also, by the same logic, a bent right wrist guarantees a flat left wrist, doesn't it?

3. Another question, is the left wrist allowed to bend after the follow through (both arms straight) or is it only allowed to roll?


1. It is not only possible to maintain a Bent and Level Right Wrist while Cocking and Uncocking the Flat Left Wrist, it is mandatory. Study the Flying Wedges (6-B-3-0-1).

2. Maintaining the Right Wrist Bend guarantees a Flat Left Wrist, but only if the Right Wrist Bend is precisely the amount established at Impact Fix. If the Bend is less, the Left Wrist will be Bent. If more, it will be Arched. Be aware that the further Forward the Ball is positioned, the greater the amount of Right Wrist Bend. And the further back, the lesser the amount.

3. After the Follow-Through, the Flat Left Wrist Swivels back against the Plane and then Bends as the Right Wrist Flattens (Right Palm down to the face of the Plane). This is the reverse of their positions in the Backstroke. At the Finish, most really good players have restored the original Flying Wedge alignments, i.e., the Flat Left Wrist and the Bent Right Wrist and their perpendicular relationship to each other.
Topic:Clubhead Lag
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillygolf
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Cook
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillygolf

Its the same effect as a figure skater. When the arms are extended, it increases the mass, and the figure skater slows down. When the right arm extends in the golf, we are adding effective mass, and the hands slow down. Because the shaft is moving at the same rate, or at least attempting to and the clubhead is seeking to maintain its inline relationship to the hands, or pp#3, it continues regardless of added mass or not. It never actually passes the hands because the hands are still thrusting....but the shaft, due to its whippiness, does bend because it is being overtaken by the clubhead and this is the bow we see.

If you were to do the same with a thin iron bar, you most likely wouldnt be able to catch the bowing on camera - because an iron bar most likely could withstand the overtaking motion of the clubhead and the increased mass wouldnt affect it as much.

All of this is due to the Conservation of Angular Momentum as explained in 6-C-2-B: "The clubhead 'overtaking' speed is governed by the Law of Conversation of Angular Momentum whereby the increased Mass resulting from any extension of the swing radius decelerates the Hands and unless they are supported by Power Package thrust or throw out action. can result in great loss of clubhead speed."

.


I don't quite understand how the mass was increased. Nothing was added just the configuration on the arms. In moving the arms outward the moment of inertia of the skater changed but not the mass. No mass was added to the club, no mass was added to the arms, I don't understand??


Jim...

Good point. I misspoke somewhat - what is actually happening is we are increasing the radius. Strictly speaking, we haven't really added mass. However, the term used in the explanation to me was 'effective mass'. I guess what this does is increase the moment of inertia by redistributing the mass of the rotating force.

Does that make more sense? Let me know if I am off in any of this - the purpose is to understand it.

-Patrick


Yoda 04-26-2006 03:25 PM

Magic of the Right Forearm/Elbow Action GM#29
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by johngolf33
In a punch basic stroke :oops:do you feel the right arm flying wedge intact all the way down to the ground in front of the ball?


JG33,

For all Strokes, the entire Flying Wedge Assembly -- Left Arm and Right -- remains intact at least through the end of the Follow-Through (the Both Arms Straight position).

Yoda 04-26-2006 03:41 PM

Magic Of The Right Forearm / Elbow Action GM#34
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EdZ
I'd say Venturi would agree with your 'cast' feel :oops:


Yes, I remember an article Ken did on the short game years ago where he put both wrists and forearms in casts. In addition to preventing any Left Wrist Bend, the Left Wrist/Forearm cast precluded the Wristcock. This would be another helpful image because you would rarely use the Wristcock -- the Velocity Accumulator (6-B-2) -- in a Single Barrel (10-4-A) Stroke.

Incidentally, I have previously commented on the mistaken notion that maintaining the 'Locked' and 'Frozen' alignments requires a tight Grip Pressure. It is helpful to realize that the 'cast' that 'freezes' the Right Wrist in its Bent and Level Impact Fix alignment does not prevent the Wrist within that cast from remaining in an inert, unstressed condition from the Top through Impact per 4-D-1. In other words, the cast is one thing and the degree of tension in the Wrist is quite another.

Yoda 04-26-2006 03:42 PM

Magic Of The Right Forearm / Elbow Action GM#35
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by johngolf33
Dear Yoda,

I went out to the range today and tried my version of "hitting" with a frozen right wrist. The crossline delivery path of the hands is easier with a more rigid right forearm flying wedge. I also tried pushing the handle back with the right thumb pressure. It seems more structurally sound. Should the #3ppt push on the back of the handle on the downswing, without any rotation, in a straight line path to the aiming point if one is using angled hinging? :oops:


Yes. Regardless of the Hinge Action employed, Clubhead Force and Motion is always On Plane at right angles to the Sweetspot (1-L #10 and #11) and also to the Clubshaft (7-11). At the Top, Hitters Drive Load (10-19-A) the Clubhead Lag Pressure with the No. 3 Pressure Point at right angles to the Aft side of the Shaft and that Loading is maintained through Impact.

Swingers, on the other hand, Drag Load (10-19-C) the Lag Pressure at right angles to the Top of the Shaft. That Loading is maintained at least into Release, at which time the Swivel may or may not cause it to return to the Aft side of the Shaft (10-11-0-3). If it does not, the Swinger who began with a Strong Single Action Grip (10-2-B) has now changed to a Weak Single Action (10-2-A).

Yoda 04-26-2006 04:45 PM

Magic Of The Right Forearm / Elbow Action GM#71
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vincekemp
Thanks Yoda,

I take it that the above move is critical in a all G.O.L.F shots?

Lets try and see if I am on the right track. As far as I can comprehend the angle of the club shaft at address effectivly sets the plane angle? If that is so does that mean when setting up for the on plane right forearm it effectivly extends from the shaft in a line along the right forearm, slightly bent at the elbow. From there as I take the club back the right forearm should follow the plane line up and back to the top with a still bent right wrist?

If that is correct then on the downswing and through, the motion is the same maintaining the bent right wrist to the top. If that is so and it seems that it can be done (in the backyard without a ball at least) then is there any release at all from the right wrist. Or is this the difference between swinging and hitting or am I describing a slap at the ball.? See I told you I was confused!!! I think I need more pictures. (I do have "the book"). The ones supplied earlier in this post of the dowel, forearm and table told more than words could describe. something on the later move and the bending elbow may clear things up.



vince


Vince,

Ideally, the player establishes a Turned Shoulder Plane (10-6-B) at Impact Fix and positions the Right Forearm and Clubshaft on this Plane. Study this Right Forearm alignment in the pictures 9-2-2 #2 and 9-2-10 #2.

Regarding the Right Wrist 'Release'...it has none. The Wrist Release is an Uncocking of the Left Wrist (2-P). Even though it is executed on an Inclined Plane, the Wristcock remains a Vertical motion (4-B-0/1/2/3) and it defines the plane of the Left Arm Flying Wedge (6-B-3-0-1). Any Flattening of the Right Wrist is a Horizontal Motion (4-A-0/1/2/3) that destroys the alignments of both the Right Arm and Left Arm Flying Wedges.

The pictures below should help clarify things. Thanks to Golfingrandy for the photos and to Martee for his help on getting these up!


The Left Arm and Right Forearm Flying Wedges (Zero #3 Accumulator)



The Right Forearm Flying Wedge -- On Plane Forearm and Clubshaft



The Left Arm Flying Wedge -- Off Plane Forearm (with #3 Accumulator) and On Plane Clubshaft



The Flying Wedges Assembly



The On Plane Right Forearm Flying Wedge on a Horizontal Plane



The Right Forearm Flying Arm Wedge lowered to an Inclined Plane

Yoda 04-26-2006 04:46 PM

GM#71 Contiinued
 

The Impact Alignment and Angle of Approach of the Right Forearm Wedge



Impact Alignment of the Flying Wedges Assembly



Flying Wedges Assembly in Start Up



Flying Wedges Assembly at Follow-Through (Both Arms Straight)

Yoda 04-26-2006 05:03 PM

Magic Of The Right Forearm / Elbow Action GM#82
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tanner
Master Yoda

Does the last picture indicate an Angled Hinge being used?? And do these pictures imply a hitting procedure?? :oops:


Yes to both questions, Stan. However, the purpose of the photos was to illustrate the Flying Wedges Alignments -- Left Arm, Right Forearm and their collective Assembly -- not the Clubface Hinge Action or the Clubhead Physics of Rotation.

Yoda 04-26-2006 05:06 PM

Magic Of The Right Forearm / Elbow Action GM#84
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by geoffb
A picture speaks a thousand words!

Thanks Yoda, the picture "Flying Wedge Assembly in Start Up" was a real key for my understanding.

One question though, in the aforementioned picture would your right elbow position be in that position for both hitting and swinging?


Thanks

Geoff


Swingers align the Right Forearm directly behind and in support of the On Plane Loading Action of the Clubshaft. Hitters support the Loading of the entire Primary Lever Assembly, i.e., the Left Arm and Club. The difference in their respective Loading Actions is most evident at The Top. In Start Up, however -- assuming no Wristcock -- the Right Elbow Alignment is the same for both Hitting and Swinging: at Right Angles to the Clubshaft.

The term Right Elbow Alignment is preferable to Right Elbow Position. Its actual Position would be different if the Hitter's Angle of Approach Procedure, but its Alignment would be identical

Yoda 04-26-2006 05:07 PM

Magic Of The Right Forearm / Elbow Action GM#85
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GolfCatty
Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda

Swingers align the Right Forearm directly behind and in support of the On Plane Loading Action of the Clubshaft. .



IS that the same as saying that the right forearm is in line to ,and on the same plane as the clubshaft, and that this can only happen if the right wrist is neither cocked or uncocked? And whatever motion the right forearm makes, the clubshaft will follow exactly if the right flying wege is intact?


Thanks


The Plane of the Right Forearm Flying Wedge (6-B-3-0-1) and the Plane of the Clubshaft (2-F and 1-L #5) are not one and the same. They define the same Plane only when the Right Elbow is On Plane, i.e., during Start Up and through Release and Impact.

In the precision assembly of the Right Forearm Flying Wedge, the Right Wrist is Frozen in its Bent, Level and Vertical Alignments. Throughout the Stroke, the Wrist may make Rotational Motions (Turn and Roll), but it does not make Vertical Motions (Cock and Uncock) and once Bent in its Impact Alignment, it makes no further Horizontal Motions (Bend or Arch).

The Skilled Player uses his Right Forearm and #3 Pressure Point to Trace the Straight Plane Line and thereby maintain a consistent Clubhead Orbit (2-N-0). He has learned to disregard both the Clubhead and the Body. Instead, he relies solely on his Educated Hands (5-0) to control the Three Functions of the Club (Face, Head, and Shaft per 1-L) throughout the Three Station Stroke (12-3).

Yoda 04-26-2006 10:56 PM

Magic of the Right Forearm / Elbow Action GM#127
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GolfCatty
Yoda,

DO TGM trained players prefer light swingweights? I am wondering if a heavier clubhead makes it more difficult to 'slap' with the #3PP.

Thx


Swingweights, overall Clubweight and other 'balancing' factors make little difference to TGM players. That is because your normal #3 Pressure Point Pressure moves lighter Clubs faster and heavier Clubs slower (6-C-2-0). This produces a higher 'Approach Speed' (into Impact) for the lighter Clubs. However, the heavier Clubs have more mass. These two factors -- higher velocity versus more mass -- tend to cancel each other out, and this results in a nearly identical Separation Speed for both the lighter and heavier Clubs.

But this brings us to an important point: No matter what Club you are using, you must Sustain the Lag all the way through Impact. Impact is, as Homer used to say, "so terribly violent!" And the idea is to make that violent collision last as long as possible -- you want that Ball to stay on that Clubface for as long as possible -- so as to transfer as much of the Clubhead Momentum to the Ball as possible. And remember: The Ball hits the Clubface just as hard as the Clubface hits the Ball! That means that the Clubhead will slow down during Impact. Since the Ball picks up 100 percent of the Separation Speed (of the Clubhead), your job is to make sure that the inevitable Clubhead Slowdown is as little as possible. All this means that you Never Quit at Impact!

Finally, though you do 'hit the Ball with your #3 Pressure Point,' it is best to visualize a much more 'massive' action. The #3 Pressure Point is the 'Point' that is Driving your entire Right Forearm Flying Wedge -- the Right Forearm, Frozen Bent Right Wrist, #3 Pressure Point and the angled extension of the Club. Think of all this as one unit, and keep Driving it -- Follow-Through! -- all the way through to Both Arms Straight!

It is the 'Open Sesame' to a lifetime of Better Golf.

Yoda 04-26-2006 11:05 PM

Magic of the Right Forearm / Elbow Action GM#131
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Powerdraw
Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda


Finally, though you do 'hit the Ball with your #3 Pressure Point,' it is best to visualize a much more 'massive' action. The #3 Pressure Point is the 'Point' that is Driving your entire Right Forearm Flying Wedge -- the Right Forearm, Frozen Bent Right Wrist, #3 Pressure Point and the angled extension of the Club. Think of all this as one unit, and keep Driving it -- Follow-Through! -- all the way through to Both Arms Straight!

It is the 'Open Sesame' to a lifetime of Better Golf.


.....angled extension of the club???? do you mean the angle between left arm and shaft (left wedge) propelled by the action of right arm?...i am one that drives pp#3 to impact...yes it does feel a little weak especially with a heavy club....cause of the mass...hhmmm...so a more massive action in mind would be what you guys speek of as blast off and or launching pad stuff, is this what you mean?


By 'angled extension of the Club,' I mean that the Club is an Angled Extension of the Right Forearm. And by 'more massive' I mean that it is not only the #3 Pressure Point supplying the Driving, On Plane Force required by 1-L-#10, it is also the Right Forearm. And the thrust of the Right Forearm, in turn, is either supported by the On Plane Right Shoulder (Hitters) or supplied by it via the Centrifugal Force created by its Downstroke Turn (Swingers).

In other words, you 'hit the ball' not only with your #3 Pressure Point, you hit it with your entire Right Side -- Shoulder, Forearm and #3 Pressure Point (balanced with #1 if you want) -- all On Plane directly behind the Clubshaft and Driving the Clubhead Lag and Sweetspot toward the Plane Line. And when you get it right...

It's Delicious.

Absolutely delicious.

Yoda 04-26-2006 11:10 PM

Right Forearm Alignments GM#133
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ftcmnc
How do you set up with the right forearm on the clubshaft plane at address?

Maybe I have completely misunderstood earlier directions for doing this or maybe I am anatomically deformed, but I can't seem to set up this way without putting myself into a position that a Cirque de Soleil performer would be envious of.

Also, after reviewing numerous photos of professional golfers, I don't see any that set up this way.

Yoda, can you or Chuck or anyone else help me understand this. Pictures would be very helpful if at all possible.

Thanks.


Study the photos in 9-2-1 #2; 9-2-2 #2; and 9-2-3 #1.

See also my posts above regarding the minimal #3 Accumulator and the heel-to-toe positioning of the sole of the club

Yoda 04-26-2006 11:14 PM

Magic of the Right Forearm/Elbow Action GM#135
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mb6606
Using the srong single action grip and correct forearm action what prevents or causes the ball to hook? It seems like the club face automatically closes at and through impact.


Assuming:

1. A Flat Left Wrist executing any one of the three Hinge Actions;

2. Including their proper Rhythm;

3. With the Clubface aligned at Impact Fix per the selected Hinge Action;

4. The Ball properly positioned for Straightaway Flight; and

5. The Right Forearm and #3 Pressure Point Tracing the Square-Square Plane Line of 10-5-A...

The Ball will go dead straight.

Yoda 04-27-2006 08:01 AM

Right Forearm Alignments GM#146
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tgmgolfer2k2
Quote:

Originally Posted by femoore
Could Mr. Kelley have called it Start Up, because the emphasis was on the UP? Right forearm pickup. It is NOT a Start Back, or Start In.


Exactly right.

I remember Yoda distinctly making this point in St. Augustine.


Don't even get me 'started' on the Start Down!

Yoda 04-27-2006 08:20 AM

Planes, Pressure Points, Grips, and Lasers - Ugh! GM#160
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by golfingrandy
Quote:

Originally Posted by Martee
Need some help here. It really goes beyond clearing the FOG, I must be in a free fall to the center of the earth nearing light speed. Sorry for the length.


Martee,

With the above in mind, take a look at the Glossary and the definition of the Sweetspot then go to 2-R, 7-6, and 10-6. Sometimes the path of learning and deeper comprehension is when we not only read the word but can see the word in action or in some type of picture form.


Good stuff. See also the correct Right Forearm Alignment in:

9-2-1#2;

9-2-2 #2;

9-2-3 #1; and

9-2-10 #2.

Get your Book, a Club and head for the nearest full-length mirror. Look, Look, LOOK to get it right! First without the Club; then, with the Club. Your Left Wrist is Flat, Level and Vertical; your Right Elbow is Bent; and your Right Forearm is On Plane with the Clubshaft its Angled (from the Bent Right Wrist) In Line Extension.

When you do this, you will look like a Player.

If you continue to do this on the Practice Tee and Course...

You will become a Player.

Yoda 04-27-2006 08:31 AM

Magic Of The Right Forearm / Elbow Action GM#168
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drewitgolf
In the July 2004 Golf Digest, Tom Ness, a big proponent of TGM, puts his spin of the Flying Wedges with his article "Making an Impact-Golf's 6 Degrees of Seperation"-Don't Let the Handle Go Backward.


Homer Kelley liked things that were so absolutely correct that you didn't have to use the term 'degrees' to describe what you were talking about. For example, was your Left Wrist Flat at Impact? Or not?

Did you Trace the Straight Plane Line? Or Not?

Did you Thrust the #3 Pressure Point down a Straight Line Delivery Path? Or not?

Absolutes.

Unmistakeable absolutes:

-- From the Top, Thrust the Straight Line Lag Pressure Point (Clubhead).

-- Trace the Straight Plane Line (Clubshaft).

-- Keep your Left Wrist Flat (Clubface).


Drive.

Yoda 04-27-2006 08:33 AM

Right Forearm Alignments GM#169
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jhn
Yoda

I have been trying to resolve these three questions for myself and I would greatly appreciate your opinion.

What are the advantages/disadvantages of going to maximum trigger delay as advocated by Ben Doyle?

What are the advantages/disadvantages of setting up with the right forearm and shaft on the same plane angle at address? (I don't see pros do this but it is where they are going to end up at impact isn't it.)

What are the advantages/disadvantages of using a zero shift swing on the turned shoulder plane angle as shown in the chapter 12 basic stroke patterns? (Again, I don't see any pros do this, but at least in theory, it would seem to make the motion more simple than the more traditional double shift?)

I apologize for the length. Thanks for all your contributions to the forum.

Justin


Justin, Thanks for writing. My answers are in bold.

1. What are the advantages/disadvantages of going to maximum trigger delay as advocated by Ben Doyle?


Very few Shots require Full Power.



2. What are the advantages/disadvantages of setting up with the right forearm and shaft on the same plane angle at address? (I don't see pros do this but it is where they are going to end up at impact isn't it.)

The exact Right Forearm On Plane Angle is established in Impact Fix (8-2) with the Weight (Hip) shifted, the Spine Tilted and the Right Shoulder On Plane. The Left Wrist is Flat and the Right Wrist is Bent. For Hitters, these alignments will be maintained at Adjusted Address (8-3). For Swingers, after Fix, the Weight will be returned between The Feet, the Spine will be Vertical and the Right Shoulder will parallel to the Line. The Left Wrist will be Bent and the Right Wrist will be Flat. Nevertheless, every effort should be made to keep the Right Forearm On Plane (and pointing toward the Line).

From Homer Kelley:

"That's where I get in trouble. When I move back to Adjusted Address, my Forearm gets too high."


3. What are the advantages/disadvantages of using a zero shift swing on the turned shoulder plane angle as shown in the chapter 12 basic stroke patterns? (Again, I don't see any pros do this, but at least in theory, it would seem to make the motion more simple than the more traditional double shift?)

Yoda 04-27-2006 09:05 AM

Magic Of The Right Forearm / Elbow Action GM#184
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Range Rat
Yoda,
What about about the alignment of the right shoulder and right forearm at address. Better said the tilt of the right shoulder in alignment with the right forearm...with the right hand naturally lower than the left hand at address...the right shoulder should tilt in alignment with right forearm...I guess my question is? Does Homer mention something like this in the book, right know I don't have the time to research it!!!!

The AI that I'm working with said I need to tilt my right shoulder a bit??? Then I thought to myself....self??? :oops:...tilt my shoulders to the right? By what degree?....then I looked down at the my right forearm and it seemed to make logical sense that the right shoulder should tilt naturally in alignment with the right forearm as the right hand is put on the club at address....hey...an alignment instead of just a position!!!!!!! Now we're getting somewhere!!!
Range Rat


As I wrote on a post earlier today -- or was it yesterday? :oops:-- the Right Forearm On Plane at Impact is due to the Right Shoulder being On Plane. This, in turn, is due to the Hip Shift and Axis Tilt at Start Down. So, the On Plane Right Forearm and the Impact degree of Right Elbow Bend is dependent upon the Impact Location of the Hip and Spine. Any attempt to recreate the On Plane Right Forearm and Fix degree of Right Elbow Bend without the accompanying Hip Shift (and Axis Tilt) tends to create contortive (and even 'un-golflike') alignments at Adjusted Address.

So, if you're going to 'tilt' your Axis at Address, do it via the very slight -- but nevertheless required -- Hip Shift, not through an artificial lowering of the Right Shoulder. And when you Shift (and probably slightly Turn) your Hips, leave your Head directly between your Feet. In other words, do not 'lean' to the right or otherwise attempt to get 'behind the Ball.'

Head Location is independent of Ball Location. With your Head Centered between your Feet, you're already 'behind' the Ball. Or 'in front' of the Ball. Or 'even with' the Ball. Now stay there and do the really important thing: Keep the Clubhead behind The Hands.

It's God's Plan.

Yoda 04-27-2006 09:43 AM

The Right Arm GM#209
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sdbyrd
I'm a TGM newbie, but I've been lurking around here and the Chuck Evans forum for a few weeks. I'm starting to get excited about all this, because I find that the more time I put into the book and the forums the more clear it all becomes. What a surprise.

This morning I was reading the book and browsing the forums and ran across a post that said, if I understood it correctly, that the right elbow should bend immediately in the takeaway, so that the forearm moves up very early in the swing. I made a note to try it at the range.

When I bent the elbow so that the forearm went vertical, leaving the elbow basically unmoved (horizontally) in relation to my right side, everything changed. The club got on plane. All the power I generated began to flow down the target line, rather than out and around. My hips began to clear instead of getting in the way of my right elbow on the way down. I could swing as hard as I wanted and it felt like all the power was being channeled straight down the line into and through the ball.

I've got a long way to go, but I really feel like I've crossed a big hurdle. If I'm off track with any of this, please let me know.

Oh, and I finally figured out what the Law of the Flail means. What I'm figuring out more and more is that Homer didn't write things lightly. You have to slow down, read carefully, and think about every sentence.


Welcome Aboard, sdbyrd,

Wonderful stuff!

You will find that everything in TGM you understand -- and correctly execute -- works. And it will keep working! You will hit plateaus, of course, but only as preparation for your 'next' level. I know this for a fact.

I've been at it some 25 years now, and I'm more excited than ever!

Yoda 04-27-2006 12:00 PM

Magic Of The Right Forearm / Elbow Action GM#257
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by johngolf33
If the left wrist is flat level and vertical, and the right wrist is bent level and vertical at impact fix, is the cocking of the left wrist solely due to the bending of the right elbow, maintaining the right wrist in the same bent, level and vertical position that it was at impact fix? :oops::oops:


For Hitters -- that would be you, JG33! -- the Right Elbow does indeed Cock the Left Wrist as it Bends and Fans in the Backstroke. But remember, the Hitter's Left Wrist Action to The Top is essentially Angled Hinge Action (10-18-C-2). So, while the Right Wrist retains its Bent (Horizontal Grip Motion) and Level (Vertical Wrist Motion) Impact Fix alignments, it continuously Turns (Rotational Hand Motion) from Start Up to The Top. Study 4-0.

The Golfing Machine. Gotta love it! :oops:

Yoda 04-27-2006 12:06 PM

Magic Of The Right Forearm / Elbow Action GM#260
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillygolf
Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda
Quote:

Originally Posted by ms1170
Yoda,

Thank you for your wonderful posts. You make TGM a lot easier to understand, but I am confused about the Right hand position in this exercise.
My problem is I don't see how it is possible to hold the dowel a foot from the end with a vertical (4-C-1) wrist on the table top.. Also wouldn't your hand have to be palm down or "rolled (4-C-3) to have the dowel parallel to the table top? Thanks again for your help.

Mike


Mike,

Like this!

:oops:

:oops:


Yoda,
In holding the right arm and shaft on the same plane - I have a question. In the next post on this thread, you state the following:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda

Now stand up, keeping your On Plane Right Arm Flying Wedge Intact and on a Horizontal Plane.

Shift your Body into its Impact Fix Alignments.

Keeping your Right Forearm Flying Wedge intact -- that means Right Wrist Bent and dowel parallel to the floor (or ground) -- move the Club into an On Horizontal Plane Backstroke by Bending your Right Elbow.

From there, move the Club into an On Horizontal Plane Downstroke STRAIGHTENING YOUR RIGHT ARM WHILE KEEPING YOUR WRIST BENT. Do this over and over and over and over and over.

Look, Look LOOK to make sure there is ABSOLUTELY NO FLATTENING OF THE RIGHT WRIST!!! IT MUST REMAIN IN ITS BENT AND LEVEL CONDITION.

Then drop your Right Forearm Flying Wedge onto the Inclined Plane and REPEAT THE EXACT SAME MOTION. Do this over and over and over and over and over. Bend the Right Elbow. Straighten the Right Elbow. Keeping the Right Wrist Bent.

Alternate back and forth between Horizontal Plane practice and Inclined Plane Practice. Listen to the dowel Swish as you Straighten the Right Elbow. Do this every day until further notice.


My question is this. If, at impact fix, this alignment is established - for practice purposes - how far back into the stroke would you maintain it? (meaning, not necessarily the bent right wrist condition, but the onplane forearm and shaft as depicted on the table - laying on the same plane) I am guessing into the backstroke but not sure about the top.

1. For Swinging
2. For hitting

Anyone else, I would like to hear your input as well.

Thanks,
Patrick


Good question, Patrick, and Homer specifically addressed it in his additions slated for the as-yet-unpublished 7th Edition:

4-D-1, paragraph 1, last line -- after "(2-K)" insert:

"But, remember that there is normally a point where Backstroke Shoulder and Wrist Motions make it difficult or even impossible to keep the Flat Left Wrist vertical to its Plane or the Right Forearm on its Plane without producing a non-golfing and Off Plane Clubshaft position or motion which is intolerable per 2-F and 3-F-6 for thinking players (1-G)."

And there -- from The Man himself -- you have it! :oops:

Yoda 04-27-2006 04:29 PM

Magic Of The Right Forearm / Elbow Action BM#81
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by David Alford

fdb2, I have agreed it is not a perfect single axis. I would still call it a
single axis, and when I tried to be more accurate and said
"basically" a single axis, my critics thought that was just a
terrible thing.


How hot is it in Arizona? "101 degrees, sir." "What? That ain't
hot, hot is when water boils."


"Ok, turn your air conditioner off then, smart guy."


SuperDave,

You have agreed to 'no Single Axis' only under the duress of Truth as
professed by your 'critics.'

Bottom Line:

On Plane is On Plane.

Off Plane is Off Plane.

During the Release Interval, the Right Forearm is On Plane.

The Left Arm is not.

For the record, these are Facts, not Opinions.

As far as Phoenix Weather goes, here are the current conditions:

- Wind from the NE (050 degrees) at 7 MPH (6 KT)
- Visibility 10 mile(s)
- Sky conditions mostly cloudy
- Temperature 93.9 F (34.4 C)
- Dew Point 50.0 F (10.0 C)
- Relative Humidity 22%
- Pressure (altimeter) 29.86 in. Hg (1011 hPa)
- Pressure tendency 0.01 inches (0.2 hPa) higher than three hours ago

And so it goes.

Yoda 04-27-2006 04:50 PM

Chopping Motion BM#94
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by diggerdog

Every lesson with Yoda causes a few days of frustration and even doubt in his
effectiveness until, with perserverence, I emerge out the other side of the
rabbit hole and have a new understanding of an element of the machine that we
did't even discuss.
My last lesson with him focused on my right arm action. I have engrained a
habit of not fanning the right arm due to keeping the clubface too shut. He
wanted me to fan the forearm with what felt like a choppy, lifting motion,
feeling the clubface was opening up way too much. Anywho, I did notice that I
could throw the right arm more in the downswing, as opposed to either opening
it in the downswing or holding off for dear life to not hook it off the
planet.


Throught the back door, this made me realize my hands and arms were not doing
enough up and down. they were going more side to side. My new swing feels
like I am chopping down on a stump or like I am trying to bang the sole of
the club into the ground.




A Three-Dimensional Impact (2-C-0) -- Downward (Attack Angle) and
Outward (Plane Angle) and Forward (Approach Angle) -- requires a Three
Dimensional Backstroke
(2-F), i.e., the Club moves Upward, Backward and
Inward -- On Plane -- instantly and simultaneously. This
requires a Three Dimensional Right Forearm and Elbow Motion (2-N-0 and
7-3).

If the 'describable sensation' of this Precision Mechanic (1-J and 3-B) 'Feels'
"Lifting" and "Chopping" (compared with the Prior Total
Motion Feel) then that is the Feel to incorporate into your basic procedure
(Chapter 14). But be sure to look, LOOK, LOOK and make sure you are
getting the Mechanic right. Otherwise, you will be incorporating into your
Stroke the Feel of an incorrect Mechanic.

The change in one Component will almost always affect its relationship with
others. Therefore, one can expect the need to 'tighten tolerances' within the
Total Motion to be the natural byproduct of continuing progress. Here, a
continuing relationship with a competent Authorized Instructor can make the
transition from 'Can't' to 'Can' as painless and seamless as
possible. Even so, at the end of the day, the Instructor can only inform and
explain...


It is the Student who must absorb and apply.

Yoda 04-27-2006 09:30 PM

Magic of the Right Forearm BM#114
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 300Drive


If the backswing is significantly improved by the magic of the right forearm
pick-up, what is the equally important forward swing movement that
significantly improves forward swing motion....????




The Magic of the Right Forearm (7-3) does not end with the Right
Forearm Takeaway
. Unlike the disruptive Shoulder Turn Takeaway -- which
keeps the Clubhead too 'low' and thus necessitates a Single Shift (10-7-B) to
achieve a Turned Shoulder Plane -- the Right Forearm Pick Up takes the
Club instantly and simultaneously Up, In and Back with Zero
Shift (10-7-A) on a Turned Shoulder Plane (10-6-B). This Three Dimensional
Start Up
(2-F) parallels the Three Dimensional Impact -- Downward
(Attack Angle), Outward (Plane Angle) and Forward (Approach Angle) [2-C-0] --
that is so necessary for Maximum Compression.

This geometrically correct Start Up is the best way to assure that you arrive
at the Top with minimal adjustment required with regards to the Plane Line,
Lag Loading and Right Forearm Position (12-3 / Section 6 / #19-#23). Then,
you have only to return the Right Forearm precisely to its own Angle of
Approach
(7-3) as established at Impact Fix (8-8 ).

This assures the Downward element so often missing from the Impacts of
even the best players. It thereby eliminates the Clubface 'Wobble' (and Lost
Compression) that occurs during Impacts where the Clubhead comes in too low
and Laying Back.

"As it goes back, so it tends to come down."

The Magic of the Right Forearm -- in both directions -- is the open
door to your Best Golf.

Yoda 04-27-2006 09:32 PM

Magic of the Right Forearm BM#115
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 300Drive




Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda




Quote:

Originally Posted by 300Drive


If the backswing is significantly improved by the magic of the right forearm
pick-up, what is the equally important forward swing movement that
significantly improves forward swing motion....????




...... Then, you have only to return the Right Forearm precisely to its
own Angle of Approach
(7-3) as established at Impact Fix (8-8).

..............

The Magic of the Right Forearm -- in both directions -- is the open
door to your Best Golf.








Question...on the backswing your right forearm delivers the club on plane to
the top of swing position....What or how do you deliver the right forearm on
the forward swing when using a swinger's action (not a hitter's action)? Does
the pulling by the left side deliver the right forearm?, the pivot (I hope
not, I dont get how the pivot delivers the arms and club), or the right
forearm itself? If its the right forearm, it would not seem like a swinger's
action.


Thanks






For a given Delivery Line, the Geometry of the Right Forearm Motion is
identical for both Hitters and Swingers. Only the Physics differs
(Preface and 2-M-1). The Hitter's Active Right Forearm is Driven into
its Impact Fix alignment by Muscular Thrust per 6-B-1-A (Right Triceps Drive).
The Swinger's Passive Right Forearm is Thrown into its Impact
alignment by Centrifugal Force per 6-B-4-A (Right Shoulder Turn
Thrust).


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