Right Forearm at Top for Hitting and Swinging
 

Here's a picture of Yoda at the Top of his Hitting Stroke:



Here's another:



Here's one of Yoda at the Top (the End) of his Swinging Stroke:



According to The Golfing Machine:

"For Hitting (10-19-A), the Right Forearm should be precisely in-line with – and directly opposed to – the motion of the On Plane Loading Action (7-22) of the entire Primary Lever Assembly (6-A) not just the Clubshaft, and this alignment is maintained through Impact (2-J-3, 4-D). For Swinging (10-19-C) the Right Forearm should be precisely in-line with – and directly opposed to – the motion of the On Plane Loading of the Secondary Lever Assembly (the Clubshaft) and this alignment maintained through Impact."

I can't see the difference in Right Forearm locations in these pictures.

Can you?

What is going on?

I can see your point Leo..but the right forearm is oppsed to the loading action of the pressure point...

Hitting to the Side...opposed to a pressure point that remained "Fixed" on the side during the Backstroke

Swinging it is located underneath..opposed to a pressure point that was rotated to the Top due to the wrist action,loading action, and assembly point... there for supporting the load from underneath....

Leo

For SWINGING, the Right Elbow will be pointing more towards the ground. The Right Forearm will be directly opposed to the secondary lever assembly because of the turning of the left forearm in the start up swivel.

For HITTING, the Right Elbow will be pointing more behind the player.The Right Forearm will be directly opposed to the primary lever assembly as there is no swiveling of the left forearm.

I agree with regard to the direction the right elbow will pointing. I personnally believe that this is one way to identify a golfer's intent, be it swinging or hitting, however with amateurs this can be quite misleading due to the mixing of components.

I would ask a question.

When I was with Yoda, we did a drill using paddles. The drill for swinging was at start up to rotate the right palm to the plane angle by time your club first became parallel to the ground and then continue on up. For a hitter the motion was different in that the palm didn't reach this alignment till it was at the top. Is this the swivel you are referencing?

Turn
 

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Is Swivel being used here as synonymous with TURN? There is a TURN and ROLL. Swivel is usually used as a DOWNSWING term.

Here's some pics to ponder . . .

Fat Jack . . .



Mac . . .



The K-I-N-G . . .



Buck . . .

Nice!!! Compda...Some real sexy stuff in such a small package!!!!

No...No..No.

Turn and Roll is via the Hinge Action

Turning and Rolling is via the Swiveling of the Standard Wrist Action..

Until Hinge Action and Wrist Action is completely understood rather than a "known familiarity"..Golf is an enigma!!!:confused1

Here is my opinion on this topic. I think for each golfer, there is only one "natural" elbow position that will have the Clubshaft On Plane at the top. So, if you keep everything else the same, mostly importantly the impact fix amount of right wrist bend, whilst keeping the Clubshaft On Plane (i.e. pointing at the Plane Line), you should only get one right elbow location. And to me, that's the elbow location you should have regardless of whether you're a Hitter or Swinger. The Plane is "da boss".

Hmm?

2-G. HINGE MOTION

The Physics of Hinging is, that, Hitting or Swinging, it is actually imparted by the turning torso and/or the orbiting arms, per 2-K and 2-K#4/#5, as described in 10-18.

Therefore Hinge action is via Turn and Roll.

I have witnessed the one and only Yoda Hit and swing. The two procedures don't look the same. It was hardly perceptible that he loaded the #3 pressure point differently for each procedure. He may have only needed a fraction of a difference in elbow location to develop the difference in load direction. He is just too damn well trained.

You can load directly against the Primary Lever Assembly without having your right elbow flare out behind you. If it is flared out behind at the Top, then you may not have the elbow On-Plane for impact. After Start-down is when the pushing (I think) through #1PP begins (for Hitting) but the right elbow needs to be On-Plane for the right forearm to be On-Plane.

I'm not a Hitter. I'm still learning to Swing. I may have to caddie.

Orbiting Arms is around the axis of rotation of the left shoulder or Hinge Pin and abduction/adduction/internal and external rotation at the shoulder....Swiveling is independent rotation of the lower arm ...the axis of rotation at the elbow...a radial/ulnar movement

Who are you and what have you done with annikan skywalker?

Not exactly. The left shoulder is the center of rotation of the left arm only. The stationary head, is the center of the swing (can act as though it's the center). In non-pivot strokes you are correct, the hinge pin is located at the left shoulder, however in Pivot Strokes, The Turning Torso, around its center (Head) is the location of the hinge pin. The left arm and shoulders travel through the Impact Interval together as though welded together (if for only briefly). Then the path of this structure can be Horizontal-closing only, vertical- layed back only or Angled-closing and laying back. The path is dictated from educated hands. That is why Homer Kelley said that holding the left wrist vertical to one of the basic planes will impart that same action to the hinge. (I could have said that better)

The swivel in a full Pivot stoke, should, as especially seen in the follow-through swivel, be a rotation of the arms and not just the forearms below the elbows. Using one of the Edz drills, cup your hands in front of you and entwine the fingers of each hand together. Now, swing them back and forth using your shoulder turn to move your arms (keep your arms in front of your torso) and you'll see the full arm rotation of a swivel. A swivel is the full arm rotation about/around/within the torso rotation (Pivot). Arm rotation in the hinge is imparted by shoulder rotation (I Could have said that better too).

If I was to get into the Arnold Palmer Putting Posture (APPP), then my elbows would be tight against my sides and swivel would only be from the elbows down (non-pivot stroke).

One more point. The bending and unbending of the elbow (right elbow) permits the roll swivel and the turn swivel. The bending left elbow in the follow through permits the follow through swivel. Fanning motion of the right forearm at takeaway is because the whole right arm is rotating. If the whole right arm did not rotate, you would have Right hand Turn, but no fanning. That could Uncock the Right Wrist and effect the Right Forearm Flying Wedge.

PS. I've seen pics of your swing posted on other threads. I don't know what you are feeling, but it looks like you're doing it perfectly. Very impressive motion.

"What is going on" is that the first and last pictures are only millisconds apart of the same stroke. Look at the player in the background, his downstroke position has only changed slightly. Even the lights of the incoming UFO seen between the players are in the same position in both pictures :) Unless, of course, Yoda is able to change his swing technique mid-swing :eyes:

Those two pictures are NOT from the same Stroke.

Go look at the original video in The Gallery section if you don't believe me.

They are two different strokes. One of them with Yoda demonstrating Swinging, the other Hitting.

The player in the background is just coincidence.

I don't know . . . check the number of balls in the background on the dude behind him. He's just out there making practice swings then . . .

Check this out... Swivel? Notice the little pins..one is fixed at the shoulder at in ...the other is rotating...?????



Thanks for the compliment on my swing...feels aligned!!!!

Look at the arm poking in on the right side of the second pic (the Swing)...

....

Or you could just check the actual vid for yourself....

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/v...se_images&g=13

"Yoda-Swinging And Hitting Demo"

I took the snapshots out of the original video from The Gallery, so I think I can be pretty sure that those two shots are from two separate strokes!

Like I said, if you don’t believe me, go freeze-frame the original video yourself!

:)

Actually I've just noticed that in the "swinging"
picture, there is something with a wheel at the right side, not visible in the "hitting" picture. My apologies please.

You wanna a piece of me?????? :eyes: :happy3:

Or maybe he was just watching Lynn hit balls...:-s

:)

Not sinking in,
 

[quote=annikan skywalker]Check this out... Swivel? Notice the little pins..one is fixed at the shoulder at in ...the other is rotating...?????




This sketch is confusing (to me anyhow). 2K-4 shows a left arm in a plank type of representation with the club in the same rectangle shape. In 2K-5 the club has rolled up to vertical however the left are appears not to have changed (swiveled) it just shows the wrist hinge pin in different place with the rectangle intact. Is this a poor sketch or am I missing something.

If a sketch were made of the in-between picture, could the club and left arm (below swivel) be shown rolled up to 45 to 2K-4? Would a clockwise circular arrow make it a bit more clear?

CW

Unclear
 

[quote=Millrat]CW,
:confused1 Something not clear in the Golfing Machine- Either that's Blasphemy or a Revelation:happy3:

Seriously, you bring up some good points for clarification. Yes, I agree a number of things could be done to make this sketch more clear.

For one, the left arm should be represented with the sides and top as the same width- that way, when the swivel takes place at the forearm/elbow- it wouldn't appear (as you note) that just the hinge pin was moved- although certainly by analyzing the club movement in the sketch you should be able to determine the essence of the sketch.

It would also be nice if the before swivel (2-K-4)and the after swivel (2-K-5) clubshaft locations were not so close to the same location. With that amount of #3 accumulator i.e. the divergence between the arm and the clubshaft- the swivel motion is going to create the clubhead or the end of that stick in this sketch to move through a pretty good length of arc- which doesn't show up in the sketch.

Also, the 2-K-5 sketch should show both the arm and the clubshaft pointing in the same direction- not different directions.

Also, 2-K-4 would be better labeled "A left arm plane- on-plane wrist motion". In 2-K-4- the "Left Arm" indicating arrow should identify both sections of that board- the portion below the "swivel" as the forearm and the portion above the "swivel" as the upper arm/humerus. Otherwise, one might look at the upper portion of the board as the left shoulder and the lower portion of the board as the entire left arm - thereby incorrecty inferring that the "swivel" happens at the left shoulder.

There may be a lot more good ideas/improvements to this sketch- as you mention an arrow denoting rotation etc.-

Now, in case it's not perfectly clear- let's make sure that Mathew knows this is the blueprint of a new and improved sketch that we're looking for:), and CW is overseeing the entire production and revision process for the 8th edition- for input please call him at home- although due to his busy schedule he only wants phone calls between 12 midnight and 5AM in the morning.:)

I'm strictly a 6th edition machiner- so upon just looking at the 7th edition- the left wrist hinge pin has been removed from the sketch- either on purpose or by error of ommission - either way it's not there- although the label for the left wrist hinge pin is there.

MikeO...your opinion is always greatly respected by yours truly..but IMO the picture is "purrty durn clear"...it pretty obvious to me and well demonstrated...BUT....not everyone is at the same point along the path...so let's help others along the way!!!!!Onward Men!!!

Now, in case it's not perfectly clear- let's make sure that Mathew knows this is the blueprint of a new and improved sketch that we're looking for:), and CW is overseeing the entire production and revision process for the 8th edition- for input please call him at home- although due to his busy schedule he only wants phone calls between 12 midnight and 5AM in the morning.:)

I need to strike the ball like I sleep-dead solid:sleepy: :sleepy: :sleepy: :sleepy: :sleepy: :sleepy:

Again I think Annikan's reply captures exactly where I'm coming from-that is I stumbled out of the forest and only just found the path. It's taking a long time for my dense coconut to absorb ideas like this.

My first golf book was Sandy Lyle's, sure wish I found the yellow book back then (1990).

CW