45 minutes in 7-3
 

One of the most important parts of the book in my opinion...7-3.

The photos come in pairs...before/after, before/after, etc.

Directly opposed to the Primary lever/Directly opposed to the Secondary lever???????????????????????????????????

I smell you!

shooting for swinging
 

I want him "Directly opposed to the Secondary..."

He was so far over plane that I was trying to get him to position the Forearm "On Plane"- pointing at the Plane Line. It made a drastic difference in his ability to find the Plane. Next time, I'll be shooting for something closer to Pitch.

Rome wasn't built in 45 minutes. :clock: ;)

Instead of 45 minutes, how about 5 to 10 years!!!

DG

30 years off plane
 

He said he'd been playing golf most of his life, and every lesson he'd ever taken the instructor would tell him that he was "over the top". He said he had never seen his club "On Plane". I told him he never would again, unless the Right Forearm pointed at the Plane Line. (Slight exaggeration, but he understood the point) He told me that he felt like an idiot at address, but if it put the club On Plane, he'd do it for the rest of his life.

Forearm Wrap
 

What is the wrap on his right forearm for...is that an injury possibly caused by poor mechanics over many years?

A twinge in the right elbow?

or an arm band?


Is he suitin up for the Harlem Globetrotters...get him a matchin headband....

the band
 

He told me that it always hurt when he played, so he started wearing it to help with the pain. I'll be interested to get his feedback after a couple of weeks to see if the pain goes away.

I have never fully understood the "directly opposed to secondary/primary lever assembly". When I read the section literally, I can't picture either being possible. I've had this discussion before, but can anybody shed some light on the subject?

Out of the rubble
 

Lookee, Lookee- Who's rising out of the rubble! :shock: And the rumors of your demise must have been just that - rumors!:) The market may take a dip on Monday as this is a sure sign that loan volume is decreasing! (For those that don't know jaminid is a banker)

Seriously- welcome back!

Ya I don't get this either...this is one of the sections of the book that I put a question mark beside.

Hey Mike. I never really went away, I've just been lurking, not posting. By the way, I'm still planning on taking you up on buying you dinner in exchange for a solid TGM discussion the next time I'm in So. Calo.!
I bet you rolled your eyes when you saw this post, because I think we've had this discussion before. I've just assumed Homer is basically referring to the right forearm flying wedge as the "in-line" part and the entire "primary lever assembly" for hitters because of the lack of rotation on the backing and only the "secondary lever assembly" for swingers since they rotate the club on plane.

You would think after 20+ years I would either know it all or quit trying!

7-3, Loading Action
 

This light on the subject might only be a flicker instead of a quasar, but I’ll do my best. I’m not a Doctor of Physics, I just play one on T.V. :liar: :read:

First of all, we have to talk about load. When a golf club is in any position other than hanging perfectly perpendicular to the ground, there will be a load (force) placed on the shaft that causes the shaft to bend. I think of it as gravity having leverage on you. It’s been said that when a fly lands on a railroad track, the fly bends the rail. To what extent I’ll never know, as it’s almost immeasurable. So, what forces are acting on the club? Gravity is one. Pressure created by the golfer is another.

Imagine the golfer that takes the club to End and also has the club parallel to the ground. Also imagine that the clubhead is a lead weight. When the shaft is parallel to the ground and perfectly on plane, the golfer has loaded the top of the shaft. The golfer feels the heavy loading of the shaft against the 1st knuckle of the 1st finger, especially when he changes direction. See 10-11-0-3 for the Swinger’s Rotating Lag Pressure Point. The Right Forearm position supports this loading of the Clubshaft (Secondary Lever Assembly). So, the Right Forearm position must be such that the arm can support the loading of the Clubshaft.

On the other hand, imagine a Hitter that takes the club short of Top. The shaft position that I want you to imagine is a shaft that stands perpendicular to the ground from the face-on view of the golfer. But from down-the-line, the Clubshaft would be perfectly On-Plane. The lead weight would now feel like it was falling behind you. In other words, you would be loading the side of the shaft. Therefore, the Hitter feels the pressure in the pad of the 1st joint of the 1st finger, the Fixed Lag Pressure Point. The Hitter is supporting the entire Primary Lever Assembly (the Left Arm and Clubshaft) with the position of the Right Forearm.

If you take a wet mop (don’t hurt yourself) and position it as I’ve described in each case, you’ll feel the load, and you’ll find the Right Forearm’s roll in that Loading Action.

I hope that clears some of the fog.

Thanks for that. That's as clear an explanation as I've heard on this subject. Maybe I was just ready to hear it?

Few Questions
 

Not sure I understand but can see the difference in the pictures. First, what did you do to get him to change? And second, how did it effect his shots? (Better, straighter, etc).

Just curious?

This in my opinion is why hitter s whotry to swing ..get the elbow & club stuck behind them...changing both elbow location and pressure point location during the downstroke...

Some people GET IT...some people GOT IT....Most just DON'T

Thanks for that post Ted. Cleared some fog here for sure. The effort's appreciated.

i dont get it though...not sure yet, could you somehow plant another seed?

Pitch and punch elbow positions...
 

If I understand this correctly then as :-

-one of the key diferences between Hitter and Swinger is the position of the right elbow on downswing -Pitch or Punch positions.

- it therefore seems natural that there would be a difference in elbow positions at Top / End of backswing to prepare for this.

- Hitters have an elbow position ( and hence forearm position) that loads the side of the shaft( clubshaft on plane but pointing upwards and behind you). In my mind this has elbow pointing more outwards than downwards - ?? almost like "flying elbow"?? maybe

- Swingers elbow position is more downwards , pointing at ground?? because the club is now parallel to ground and the loading is against the top of the shaft( clubface on plane, shaft parallel to plane line)

- Take your hitting elbow position at top (more sticking out ) and try to swing ( ie. get to pitch position = down and in front of right hip) and you are struggling. (as per Annikin's last post)

Is this correct interpretation? Photos would be nice please. Just trying to spell it out for the learners like myself!

Thanks for any help.

Thanks GolfBullDog
 

That I understood, if it is correct. Thanks for the clarification.

Yes, that is pretty much it in my view. How the right forearm flying wedge forms the 90 degree angle to support the shaft - either 'under' it for a swinger or 'behind' it for a hitter.

Their difference, to a large degree, the amount of rotation allowed going back.

If both flying wedges are maintained properly (the right wrist does not cock and the left wrist is cocked by the right elbow motion) the difference visually can be subtle, but the feel is very clear, especially for a swinger using standard wrist action and startup swivel.

4 barrels
 

I agree. In addition, we have to consider the 4 barrel Hitter.

Are you gonna show some pics of theis difference at the TOP or What?


WELL.....


I'm waiting???:liar:

Hitting and Swinging
 

Golfbulldog:
I'd say that you understand the basic ideas of hitting and swinging-given the above post. Yet at the same time - as with alot of the Golfing Machine there's alot of room for potential mis-interpretation- either by the poster or the reader. So depending on who's reading- here's where I would clarify- realizing they might mis-interpret these following areas of your post.


-one of the key diferences between Hitter and Swinger is the position of the right elbow on downswing -Pitch or Punch positions.
Probably the only difference between hitting and swinging is the method of acceleration- push or pull, so while Hitting does tend to produce Punch elbow positions- it wouldn't necessarily be a key difference between Hitting and Swinging- in that you could have a swinger using a punch elbow position and a Hitter using a Pitch elbow position- normally with Float Loading is where that possibility would arise. Also, remember that the elbow positions are defined at waist level on the downswing- not at impact- both hitter and swinger end up at impact essentially the same i.e. left wrist FLV- right forearm position pointing crossline in the direction of the back of the left wrist, etc.



- Hitters have an elbow position ( and hence forearm position) that loads the side of the shaft( clubshaft on plane but pointing upwards and behind you). In my mind this has elbow pointing more outwards than downwards - ?? almost like "flying elbow"?? maybe

- Swingers elbow position is more downwards , pointing at ground?? because the club is now parallel to ground and the loading is against the top of the shaft( clubface on plane, shaft parallel to plane line)
Probably best to keep the length of the backswing the same in both comparisons- otherwise anything that goes to parallel would be swinging, etc. Anotherwords, the length of the backswing is not the distinguishing characteristic in regards to why the forearm points more "down towards the ground" for the swinger. Take it back to say 3/4's, in both examples, as you say for swinging you are just stopping and loading the shaft that's on plane where in Hitting you are stopping and loading the entire primary lever assembly - that is the left arm and clubshaft- unless with a zero number three accumulator - that primary lever assembly is always traveling on a flatter plane since the left shoulder is not on plane- so the flatter the plane the more "out" the forearm has to point- to get in line with and oppose to the loading motion.

At least that's a couple of thoughts- whether important additions or not- who knows- depends on the reader.

U Da Man
 

This reader appreciates Mike O...
good stuff.

Lawd only knows who had to bleed for him to write in red . . .

Thanks
 

Makes sense - thanks for the clarification.

This is one section of the book that I know enjoy reading rather than avoid!!

HOLY SH*T BATMAN!!!

HE LIVES!!!!!!

Great to see you Jason. For those unfamiliar, Jaminid is a TGM NUT!!!!!


One thought - opposed to - how about a Freddy Couples backswing - would that be opposed to? Therefore, supporting alignments?

Just a thought.

:)

Old times...
 

Jaminid, Mike O, and Philly...do I smell some Chapter 2 coming our way?

EC

7-3
 

Much of Tom Tomasello's teaching philosophy comes from 7-3. "The magic of the Right Forearm."

Smell
 

EC,
That smell would be Philly....however, in regards to chapter 2- :read: we're not going there unless forced :naughty: - been there done that.

However, If you'd like to have a little four on four match- total strokes - then name the course, date, time, stakes, - we'll be there- may I suggest that Orr and Bucket round out your threesome! Then we'll do a random drawing of two other members to fill both foursomes- Bring it EC!:)

Bucket
 

EC or David,
Could one of you head over to Bucket's house- he's read the post and is quivering behind his sofa:shaking:

Quivering is NOT the activity that goes on behind the sofa . . . close though . . .