Head position at setup
 

Hi there, i swing from a hands forward address position similar to impact fix.

My head however tends to move backwards on the backswing (about a head's width from the setup position mid stance) and slightly back and down on the downswing.

If i'm swinging from impact fix where should my head be positioned at setup? seems like i'm fighting to keep it in a position it wasn't meant to be in.... should it be more to the right hand side?

Thanks

Head
 

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There is much information on this on the forum. Do a search on HEAD POSITION. Look at the thread 1-L The Machine Concept #1 The Stationary Post GM #140

Most TGMers will recommend that the Head stay centered between the feet.

Two things:

Impact Fix is more than a hand position- the entire machine is in Impact – hands, hips, etc. So I think you are merely set at address with a forward press or at impact hands position. Is your left wrist flat or bent at address? A Hitter will more than likely start with FL and a BR where as a Swinger and the rest of the world is BL and FR at address. There is nothing wrong with starting with the hands over the left thigh with either address wrist positions. But….

Check your hip alignment. I think you are leaning left in your” hands forward address position” moving your head with it. The head at impact is always behind the ball- hips facing down target. Set your hips closer tothat of impact and your head should remain center with little of no need to move it to the right. Check out the Hula Hula thread. It seems that not every one on this planet can move the hips and shoulders independently. But good golf demands it.

I do think your head may be in a too much of a sway.

ps- Lagster is right- this forum is loaded with a treasure of information. I call it the "Dummies Guide to TGM" because Yoda has written clearly the secerts- locked from mere mortal eyes- of The Golfing Machine. And one good question is answered with another.

...I don't believe that is entirely accurate.

Mr Kelley's

A stationary head. 1-L-1 The Stationary Post

Stationary Head kept Centered between the Stationary Feet.

Doesn't get more basic than that.

I agree with glcoach.

Unless you are just talking about address....then I say centered is def. fine. (as a standard for most people/most shots)

Too bad we have to keep getting into this over and over again really.....it's a little grating on everyone I think...(but that's the way it goes I guess)

The FUD Factor
 

Birdie,

It keeps coming up because it's a very important topic for another instructor and because there is still confusion. We need to keep addressing it until it becomes clear. There is FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) coming our way regarding how it's taught by Lynn, Ted and others. As a result, it needs to be clarified.

I think if you do a search here, I you will find that the centered head (or base of the neck) is taken at impact fix. That center doesn't sway. In addition, it doesn't cause a reverse pivot like you might be led to believe. That in my opinion is a function of faulty hip movement. Hula Hula.

We aren't seeking any battles here. But the guns have already been fired our way. So, we clarify, and clarify some more.
Lynn will return from teaching a group of professionals in Germany on the 17th. I know he's anxious to address this topic.

Thanks,

Bagger

Where is there "FUD"?

(maybe you are waiting for Lynn to clear this up?)

...

Anyway....I agree Bagger. This is important. (for everyone)

What's "right" is (somewhat) subjective. (obviously)

In the end all anyone (from either side of the argument) can do is present info.

I actually do like debate
(definitely)...it gets things done (and needs to be done)....

My comments just came from how I'm just am getting a bad feeling about this getting negative.

Although that's often bound to happen if both sides want to be correct, right? (which is very important- to believe in what you think is right, that is) So there's nothing anyone can do....even if it gets heated.

Both sides (seem to) believe strongly in what they're doing....

....Lynn from his dealings with Homer and interpretations of the book, as well as some teaching experience.

....and Brian from his teaching experience as well as, apparently, his own observations of the tour.

The rest of us have made up our mind (hopefully) from taking this all in....+ individual experience. (in whatever)

I get the feeling this has to be one of those "agree to disagree" things....

I'm not gonna lie....I'm partial to the "base of neck"....but that's my perogative. And I'd hope I'd be able to suppport it. (civily)....(but then again- this is Lynn's site and he can teach what he wants)

As a photographer I have a tripod with a head on it that moves in three ways. Regardless of the direction- the head remains centered over the legs. If you rotate the head from one eye position to another- so what. Did the head move away from center?

I never like the way a single line is drawn from the ball to the head to measure movement. Draw two lines from the legs to the face/eyes and you will see very little head movement and never a sway.

This has been such a crock of BS. Over what two inches or less? Well it is one way to split up something as cool as HK's TGM as anything.

Birdie - FUD is the process of creating a belief system which isn't true by the use of fear, uncertainty and doubt.

There ya go. You've taken it hook, line and sinker. You believe that LBG is opposed to the base of the neck pivot center. Where did you get that idea?

In my spare time, I'll be mining for specific references where Lynn says base of the neck is a valid option. Won't take long, but I'd much rather work on videos. Ah here we go...

Start here and if you want the abbreviated version, go to the last page of the thread. http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...?t=2008&page=7

Again, where did you get the idea that the base of the neck is a LBG no no? That would be FUD that you picked up somewhere...recently...by someone you trust.
Looks like there is pretty clear agreement to me.
By both parties. Quite some time ago.
But we (LBG) have been Tried, Convicted and Sentenced in the Koolaid Court.

Want more.
I think I've already provided a pretty good set of links on the subject in the poll thread.

Bagger

Left wrist is flat, right wrist is bent with forward press
 

My left wrist is flat at setup and right wrist bent, my head is centered in between my feet (nose i guess is level with the ball when using a wedge from center of stance).

By the top of the backswing my head has moved back probably 2-3 inches - i've been trying to avoid this but it is extremely difficult and just doesn't seem like my body is built this way even with a half swing

So rather than fighting it should the head be more right of center when setting up with the hands at impact fix?

thanks all

Bah no hook line or sinker I don't think. What I understand is Lynn and company (if you will) prefer the "tripod." I dunno....I've just never seen much emphasis on anything else. (ever) Maybe I have it wrong but I dunno. Please fill me in if I'm wrong. Honestly. (I'm really not being sarcastic...I want to get that across)

I dunno Bagger....I don't see anything. ??

I haven't gone through them recently Bagger.

But people should who missed the "backstory."

No problemo Birdie.
It's totally understandable why there is so much confusion.
Take a look at the links when you get a chance and think objectively.

There is also some good information in those links about...dare I say it...head movement in the backswing.
We're learn'in though, and that's why we keep the lights on in this place.

Thanks,

Bagger

I don't know Smooth. Classic Hitter's wrist set-up at address.
Without seeing the motion, perhaps clearing the right hip before the take-away will allow you to "sit back" on your right back pocket and rotate around the spine. Do you use a right forearm Take Away or use a shoulder turn to move the arms?

Trying to use the right forearm pickup but ends up being a blend of shoulder turn as well as that's what i have been doing for many years....

The RFT is a golf move and the shoulders do turn. It is a true Hands controled pivot away from the ball.

Now I am not saying that the head moving away from the target one or two inches is wrong. It does but still remains "centered." I will let who ever wants to agrue and call names alone- I don't care. BUT... if you feel it is moving 2-3 inches- as you told me- you are more than likely moving it much more. We just want to reduce that extra lateral move so the rest of the pivot is correct and functions its best.

I watch Els and Freddie, Hogan, Lynn Blake and others with world class golf strokes and put an eraser on their head while watching the video clip. The eraser tip covers the head cause it remained still. That is it in the nutshell. Does the head stay stationary so the left shoulder can rotate in a constent horizontal circle so the arms can swing on a constent inclined (vertical) path. The golf swing.


From the egg- hope to be out one day, 6b

Thanks 6b... the only reason why i've been a bit concerned about this as it seems to shift the low point of my stroke back correspondingly by a similar amount (say 2-3 inches). The impact position looks really good, flat left wrist etc but it is a few inches behind where it should be so i need to scoop at the last minute to get at the ball.

Back to work on trying to keep it as still as possible i think with maybe moving the head just a tad right of center...