LAG
 

I think virtually ALL tour players and good amateurs have CLUBHEAD LAG. They maintain the pressure or stress on the shaft until separation. They have to... or they couldn't play to that level.

I remember old pictures of Tom Weiskopf... who was voted several times, I believe, as having the best swing on tour. He had a pretty big pulley, and had little or no forward lean of the shaft at impact. But , he must have had CLUBHEAD LAG, or no 15 wins including a British Open.

What more and more players seem to have today is BOTH... CLUBHEAD LAG and #2 ACCUMULATOR LAG. Players like Sergio Garcia, Charles Howell, and Trevor Immelman have both. Weiskopf had some #2, but his Random Sweep Release made this less apparent.

What do you think?

I think the real difference is lag pressure, regardless of release type.

The lag pressure required by the small pulley Swinger is less because the butt of the club travels a shorter distance through the pulley section. Less LW speed is required to keep the hands ahead at Impact. Most of the head speed is due to a snap release of max wristcock. With large pulley Swingers, more LW speed is required to keep the shaft from leaving PP #3 behind because the butt of the club moves a greater distance through the pulley section and there is less wristcock so the head doesn't have as far to go to catch the hands. They rely on a big arc, rotation, and arm speed for head speed.

Makes sense, well described MJ.

Given that, would the amount of mass, the amount of 'support', at impact either be 'less' for a small pulley swing, or at the least, less predictable?

In other words, distance control AND leverage would be more efficient with a so called 'large' pulley swing (read: proper extensor action). The small pulley swing would offer SPEED benefits, however there is reason to question the consistency of the available MASS in such a swing. I'd venture to say this is a key reason Clampet and/or O'Grady had/have rumors of distance control issues (correct me if I am wrong on that one please).

Hey- no Lab work in the lounge :-$ [-X [-(

I'm watching the big break III in here. :D =D> \:D/

Where's the frig? :-k

Up And Away -- From The Lounge To TGM -- Advanced
 

Right on, 6bmike. Let's take this discussion over to the TGM -- Advanced Section. Here we go, guys....swooossssshhhhh! 8)

I was just feeling funny tonight. I'm glad for all the great insight of the TGM found anywhere on this forum.

Move, Danielle is teeing up a ball. 8)

Move
 

Last night I was wathching the same show. I casually mentioned that I had teed it up with Danielle a few times.

The "move" that I saw was a copy of Martha Stewart flying in my direction.

Bad Day For The Forum Police
 

Hey, 6b! You, too, Doug! [-(

We no sooner move this Road Show from The Lounge to its proper Forum -- TGM Advanced -- and without a breath, you guys are taking this Trying-To-Get-Something-Done Crew right back into The Lounge! Pass the Dramamine and read our Forum Rules -- we have these Rules, don't we, Bagger? Trig? -- Chill'in and The Clubhead Lag do not mix!

What is this? The 'Beautician and the UPS guy' scene from Legally Blond?

Bend...

Snap!

Bend...

Snap!

Jimminy Cricket! I've become part of the problem!

AAAGGGGGHHHH!

Another Miserable Moment for The LBG Forum Police!

Re: Bad Day For The Forum Police
 

Another outburst like that Yoda, and you are banned to Orlando for a week!

Sheriff Bagger

Back to Lag!

The Policeman's Policeman
 

Look at the time prints on those two! Durn, you guys are quick.

Hey Mickey!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Many of the very long hitters seem to be on the BIG PULLEY side... Sergio of course is pretty long, but the real long ones like H. Kuehne and Weiskopf seem to have more pulley. Is someone like Elkington or Tiger a MEDIUM PULLEY?

These long hitting Big Pulley people still have CLUBHEAD LAG, just the #2 ACCUMULATOR LAG is not as obvious.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

MizunoJoe,

Your description of the LARGE PULLEY SWINGER seems to be a good description of what guys like Greg Norman do with the arm speed. Where does that arm speed come from? Is it PIVOT DRIVEN or ARM DRIVEN... or something else?

Left arm speed from rotation. Though well known European coach, Bob Torrance, who teaches a big pulley Swing to Padraig Harrington, says it comes by way of "body leverage".

I would agree with the phrase "body leverage". You can feel impact from the feet to the clubhead, full support at impact - more mass - and a long, long lever.

I agree that from Impact to Separation, the butt of the club must be connected to the ground, but no more mass is needed than that required to keep the butt of the club from backing up.

So, who is going to compute the mass needed, if a driver, 44" is used and the swing speed (head speed?) is 100 mph?

It won't be me, but I think it's a lot less than many think. 135 lb Hidemichi Tanaka has the highest or 2nd highest ball speed ever measured by Taylor Made.