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Basic Motion Questions
Hey guys...I finally bought TGM book. I have been reading it like crazy and my computer is plum full!!
My question is about the basic motion. I have been hitting two full buckets at the driving range with my basic motion. I might be hitting them too hard as they go 15 to 20 yards. I'm trying to build a swinging stroke, should I use the adjusted address or impact fix?? Is Jeff Hull & Yoda using hitting or swinging in the video on basic motion. To me they have a flat left wrist from beginning to end...am I seeing this correctly?? If I use my right arm thru impact & angled hinging as a hitter when using the swingers takeawy, should I just go with the flow and try to be a hitter vs. a swinger? Any help would be greatly appreciated.:rolleyes: |
2 Buckets
That is 2 buckets at least 10 straight days!! Sorry.:eyes:
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Stage 1 - the foundation of every swing
You may use any address you desire. The Golfing Machine gives us options. However, adjusted address is more useful for swinging. And impact fix address is more useful for hitting.
What club are you using for your basic motion ? A short iron is reccomended. I assume since you have the book you that you are using section 12-5-1. Remember to zero out Accumulator #3. I like gripping the club in the cup of my left hand for this. I think Tommy T preferred to uncock the left wrist. It's preference. I think the reason is because you will only use your basic power package with only arm accumulators. Hand pressure points, but only arm accumulators. Basically you are using your flying wedges. Yes, Jeff Hull and Yoda both have flat left wrists throughout their basic motion. Go and look at number 11 in section 12-5-1. I think that Jeff Hull is swinging due to the horizontal hinging, and Yoda is hitting. Yoda actually has a post of both his basic and acquired motions from that video. So you are torn between hitting and swinging. Before you hit another ball go to 6-H-0. The big one for me that helped me really see the difference was: active left wrist vs. active right elbow. Do not neglect pressure point #2 if you are swinging. I'm pretty sure somewhere in the book Homer recomends to learn swinging first, then hitting. For me that was not the best route. I thought I was swinging for the longest time until I realized that I was trying to 'swing hard.' Swinging should be efforeless power, instead of powerless effort. Go to Tommy T's video on hitting vs. swinging. I still like to hit short shots, but I can swing them also. I think proper hinging is critical. You must know the difference between all 3 hinge actions and be able to perform each one. |
Basic Motion....
I have always and this may be incorrect, but understood that Basic Motion is best started from impact fix. The real difference for the swinger or hitter in this motion is 'Is the Left Arm' or the 'Right Arm' powering the motion? Starting at Impact Fix, at least makes the motion 'Smipler' to start with. The Basic Motion should be able to be performed with either hand by itself. This when able to be done gives the golfer IMO the best understanding of the mechanics. There should be no swivel on the back stroke or foward stroke, the stroke distance is only about 2 feet in either direction. Key for me was PP#1. Focusing on PP#1 vs the ball and clubhead has allowed me to be successful. When I first did this be hit swinging or hitting, I was allowing separation at PP#1 when I had a ball in front of me. Poor results. The hinging used for either swinging or hitting, you should be able to perform all three. Learning to perform all three at this stage makes it easier as you progress. It sounds as if you are having trouble using the Left Arm for swinging. If you set up at adjusted address, the swinger position, you need to flatten the left wrist and get the right wrist bent. Either motion requires you to start with your hands, so left for swinging and right for hitting. Hope this helps. It would be helpful to me and maybe others if they would list how far the distance is for their basic motion with a wedge and say a 7 iron. This assumes basic motion is about 2 feet in each direction, after that you enter acquired motion, which brings other components into play. |
Thanks guys!
Knight - you said something that I didn't know before, but its in the book like you said. #11 of 12-5-1, So this means it must be flat at the address, start-up, backswing, downswing....etc?
I have been trying to swing with a set-up like, I guess one would use on a full shot. I would have a bend left wrist & a flat right wrist, then I would try to flatten the left and bend the right while trying to feel and maintain my pressure points, mainly #1 & #3. Then, this is where my problems have occured, or should I say, lack of complete understanding and mastery. Knight, do we start from impact fix, like Martee says...it seems that doing it this way is much easier. Thanks again guys...I'm going to read and study some more!:salut: |
I would definately take Martee's advice.
Actually, when I set up for basic motion with my left palm on the front of the grip the left wrist is already flat. I think this happens because of the forward leaning shaft(if the shaft is vertical at address the left wrist will bend, but this is awkward, I prefer to use the club according to it's design). So, hit or swing, my wrists do not change. The left is locked and the right is frozen. If I allow my right wrist to bend this arches the left wrist....not good. Trane, what grip are you using for basic motion ? Do you have the heel of your left hand on the top ? Are you eliminating pivot, shoulder turn, and accumulator #3 ? Just like it says: "This stage concerns mainly the basic body positions and the basic power package component alignments and arm motion power accumulators." Homer even spells it out for us with that paragraph. Then he says the same exact thing with the list. This is how I see that paragraph as a summary of the items in the list: (referring to the numbers in the list) 9 and 12 moves 14 and 15. It is a very specific combination. You said you focus on pressure points #1 and #3. #1 is not on the list, only power accumulator #1. So the right arm power only funnels through pressure point #3. This is just my interpretation. I would really like this to be either confirmed or corrected. Basically, what I am trying to say is there are only 2 power accumulators and 2 pressure points listed. Hitting or swinging. No power from the hands, only pressure. After feeling some nice compressions, and even a little shaft flex with my 7 iron on hitting strokes I am getting familiar with my power package as a whole. When I started to think about stage 2 the line that really jumped out at me was "This stage introduces body motion and the alignments and relations of the hand action power accumulators of the power package." This is how I found power accumulator #2. I never understood wrist cock and uncock. Now I can see why it is velocity power. It really whips that clubhead down, then transfers to wrist roll. The Jeff Hull videos for me were extremely helpful. Actually having a professional, who practices instead of trains this stuff still is one of the most helpful things for me. I think I am gonna watch them right now. My setup on a full shot is different than a chip shot. I use a more narrow stance |
Options, options, options...
Day 1 apprentice probably can't handle the myriad options available and needs to be told what to do - item by item - a master craftsman can appreciate the joy of options. As a day 3 apprentice this is was i have found i needed to be told to try and make it work - not sure if its right but....
12-5-1 BASIC MOTION ( by the book ! ) "2 feet in both directions ZERO OUT THE PIVOT, shoulder turn and accumulator 3 Concerns body alignments ( ie. zone1) , power package component ALIGNMENTS ( ie. FLYING WEDGES ) and arm motion power accumulators ( # 1 and #4 )" consequently:- Here are two items which are not expressly identified in the 12-5-1 section As swinging is so often associated with centrifugal force, flywheel and pivot it is hard to work out what to do when you try to swing BASIC MOTION but you are not allowed to pivot?? A key for me was realising that swinging is PULLING - and you can use pivot to pull OR the left arm "10-3-D. PULL The term "Pull" indicates that the Club is being accel¬erated by either Arm (1-F) but always with a Rope Handle procedure, per 2-K, 6-B-4 and 10-11-0. It is always a "Swing," per 10-19-C. (Study 7-1.) When used with a Major Basic Stroke, it can produce Full Power (10-11-0)." ALSO read "6-L-0. NON-PIVOT STROKE DELIVERY In a "Non-Pivot Stroke" the Arm motion begins immediately and proceeds toward the Release Point as independently as possible of any incidental body motion. Monitor slow shots for "Clubhead Sag," i.e. dropping Below Plane in either direction. (See 2-N.) However, for a Zero Pivot Stroke, see 10-12-D. And be sure to locate the Ball well aft of normal to avoid "running out of Right Arm." " 12-5-1 mentions 10-3-A for the right elbow position but in making it happen i think that 10-3-D is the only way i can make a non-pivot pulling motion! Maybe i just don't get it but i am sure i have read something from Yoda about this - just can't find the thread! So my understanding of BASIC MOTION swinging is that as a non pivot stroke you have to move the ball back in the stance and your left arm ( without shoulder motion/turn) moves across the chest to power the PULL ( ie. swing) BUT NOTE THAT PP2 and 3 are listed - there are to be sensed as passive pressure AND THAT PASSIVE PRESSURE SHOULD BE MAINTAINED. In the video with Lynn and Ben Doyle - Ben talks about using the pivot to move the hands - this seems to be an extension of Homer's original BASIC MOTION to the "chip pitch". No harm in that as long as you distinguish it from the pivotless stroke that 12-5-1 requests. |
Golfbulldog
"In the video with Lynn and Ben Doyle - Ben talks about using the pivot to move the hands - this seems to be an extension of Homer's original BASIC MOTION to the "chip pitch". No harm in that as long as you distinguish it from the pivotless stroke that 12-5-1 requests."
I saw that in the video & your assessment makes a lot of sense to me. OK, I discovered with yall's help and the Yellow Book...I havn't had my Accumulator #3 zeroed out! I think I have had some pivot and shoulder turn as well. That's why owning the book is so very imprtant. To all out there reading these posts that don't own TGM book, I recommend it. As for zeroing #3 Accumulator out, do you guys use the reverse wrist cock? or hold the club in the cup of the left hand? Also, is a reverse wrist cock the same as "uncocked 4-B-3"? I have been gripping the club under the left hand pad with level hand/wrist condition...another thing that has been wrong with my basic motion...not doing it per 12-5-1.:naughty: |
Pp #2 & #3
I'm trying to feel only these and trying to learn and follow the basic curriculum...SOLID guys and the ball isn't spinning to the right like it was before.
The feeling that I have with my PP is that I'm trying to bend my grip in half like your trying to break a pencil. Is this right? Nice lag and maintaining the desired wrist conditions thru the shot. |
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Thanks alot Trane
Hey Trane,
After I wrote that second response yesterday I had a major egg hatch in the incubator. You forced me to take a step back and look at the big picture...regarding basic and acquired motion. It helped me put together my thoughts, instead of continuing to study and read more in depth detail. So I took my 'interpretation' of stage 1(which you helped me to pull out of my head) and hit some chip shots. But something was missing. Then it hit me like a big Mack truck....Combine this 'interpretation' with my recent discovery of the flail. This turned into, what I call a 'swing idea' instead of a swing thought. I can actually relate this to chess (I know I am going off on a tangent here, but just stick with me for a minute). I was a poor chess player, until I read something from this book by Jeremy Silman called 'How to Reassess your chess' that instantly sent my level up exponentially. In the very beginning he says this "A sound plan makes us all heroes, the absance of a plan, idiots." -G.M Kotov quoting a mysterious 'chess sage.' "At some time or another every tournament player learns a few opening lines, some tactical ideas, and the most basic mating patterns. As he gets better and more experienced he adds to this knowledge. However, the one thing that just about everybody has problems with is planning. From class 'E' to master, I get blank stares when asking them what plan they had in mind in a particular position. Usually their choice of plan (if they have any plan at all) is based on emotional rather than scientific considerations. By emotional I mean that the player typically does what he feels like doing rather than what the board wants him to do. If you want to be successful, you have to base your plans on specific criteria on the board, not on your mood at any given time! "Planning is the process by witch the player utilizes the advantages and minimizes the drawbacks of his position. In order to promise success, planning is thus always based on diagnosis of the existing characteristics of a position; it is therefore most difficult when the position is evenly balanced and easiest when there is only one plan to satisfy the demands of the position." Swinging a golf club without an understanding of how it works, and what to do with it is like playing chess without a plan (Go back to the Kotov quote). Ok, so we can say that this is like a 'swing plan based on an idea.' Here it is: For basic motion, power accumulators #4 and #1 move pressure points #2 and #3 utilizing the law of the flail. Specifically the first law of the flail. This seems to work well. Am I on the right track here ? |
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A swinging motion is the left arm pull, A hitting motion would be the right arm push so to speak. So what am I missing from your statement, cause it should be one or the other, after all we are talking about a max of four feet travel of the club. |
I am just thinking and developing ideas. I need guys like you, Martee, to help me refine. This is exactly what I was hoping for, and why I post. For help because I sure need it.
Here it is modified: Basic motion swinging - Use accumulator #4 to move pressure points #2 and #3 with the law of the flail. Basic motion hitting - Use accumulator #1 to move pressure points #2 and #3 with the law of the flail. Then the pressure points move the golf club. The real key (for me) is no hand accumulators. Just allow the arm power accumulators to move the pressure points. It is just alot different for me than banging balls (before I found The Golfing Machine). Trying to just 'find it' hoping that improvement would gradually come. This is similar to the tournament chess player who is able to play well even though he is not utilizing a plan during his matches. Sure there was some improvement, but that would tend to slow and hit big brick walls often. This stuff is probably already ingrained into your head...and swing, but for me it is just all starting to come together. I think the big thing for me is that I can use the law of the flail to apply good leverage with any length stroke. I just never got it like that before. I was unable to allow the primary lever assembly flail at stage 1. Now I can. I know many of you probably say 'yeah, so what', but for me, and maybe some other members (who have not figured this out) this is pretty big stuff. And I like it alot. |
"Kelley" night
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Just one question- saw your Quote at the bottom of your post- Does Michael Hebron teach golf?;) |
Off topic
KnightT,
sorry this is way off topic, but I too used to play some tournament chess. I quit some time ago (8 years I think) and recently decided to start playing casually again. I bought Silmans book again (owned it years ago) in fact it currently sits on my nightstand just beneth TGM. It's just nice to see another chess loving golfing machine junkie out there. When I quit my rating was in the high 1400's, the strongest player I ever beat was rated around 1700. Unfortuantly playing chess is like golf; you have to practice to keep sharp and I am only a shadow of my former self. Just curious if you are/were rated? |
isnt hebron that teacher that is like a 30 handicaper
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Joker
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KnighT
It sounds like we are in the exact same boat, only you have maybe been it in longer than me. This type of dialog can really help the incubation process out. Trust me its very meaningful, and I can't tell you ALL...how much its appreciated!!:)
I like what you posted Knight very much. Your hitting and swinging basic motion idea...its sounds so logical. I havn't read the Law of the Flail yet, but saw it on Tommy's video. This reading will be tonight's homework. Martee, for me & I might have it totalling wrong here, but if I'm swinging I have to use the accumalator #1 to take the club back aka (right forearm tracing & right forearm fanning). So, I start all of my backstrokes with my right & for hitting send the right back down, & for swinging swing with the left (but don't you still thrust with the right in swinging?). KnighT, when swinging a basic motion, are you taking the power package back with the left? and back down with the left? (accumlator #4) I'm getting closer on this basic motion stuff. By the way guys, I think if you practice this in your house (don't break anything:sad2: , you will have a smoother, easier, more rhythmic stroke...that is if you don't your wife or mom or significant other to throw the yellow book in the recycle bend!!!!:laughing1 |
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Procedurally you're always taking the hands and the feel of the club (lag) back and through. What accumulators you use and how you use them is a separate issue. What arm you use is also a separate issue- and you really don't use arms to take it back or down in a procedural sense. Important distinctions to make. |
Mike
I thought Accum #4 is the left arm/shoulder & if I'm reading it correctly, it is one of the 22 components of the basic motion curriculum. There is no pivot, no shoulder turn, so the way I read it you have to take the lag (maintaining the pressure points) back towards the ball and down plane from the ball with either the #1 or #4 accumulator. I sure do hope I don't have this messed up or I will have to reincubate some stuff. Let me know guys...TY:eyes:
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It's all about the basic motion
Good one, MikeO. Michael Hebron kinda 'justifies' lessons by 'creating a learning environment.' He calls it "Michael Hebron's school for learning golf."
I never played competative chess. Just online alot. I liked the 3 and 5 minute games. I have not played in a while. All my efforts have been focused on engineering my golfing machine. Regarding the flail, this is how I use it (or at least I hope that is what it is). If you have ever gone fishing (not that bouring deep sea fishing where you just drop it down....when you actually cast the rod) then you already know the flail. Think about the handle of the rod, and the tip of the rod. You have the rod back, ready to send it forward. Left hand is on the bottom, right on top. Then, your brain sends a signal which initiates a very specific motion with the rod. If you get this motion wrong you do not send your fising lure where you intended. The proper motion is pulling down with the left hand, while simultaneously pushing with the right (very fine control and accuarcy comes from the right hand). This motion causes the handle of the rod to move back while the tip goes forward. There is a rotation point somewhere between the two hands. I think this is using leverage. After all, fishing rods and golf clubs are just class 3 levers. Locating the fulcrum is critical. To flail a golf club I use pressure points #2 and #3. The rotation point is somewhere inbetween. Visualize pp#2 moving the butt of the club one way while simultaneously moving #3 in the opposite direction, and see how the butt end of the club moves a few inches while the clubhead travels several feet. This is using leverage to produce angular motion, I think. I use my right forearm to take the club back. Hitting or swinging. Just fan the forearm (Like clapping), and trace your straight plane line. Check out 7-3 for this, especially the 'magical' last paragraph. The major difference is the loading. The best way for me to load the lag is by differentiating the two with their own specific feel. Swinging = rope handle, hitting = axe handle. They are very different. When I feel the rope handle, I can sense a tight line, just like a rope, from my left shoulder that goes directly to pressure point #3. For me, this only tightens at the end of my backswing. My right arm feels more 'out' and longer than when hitting...I think this is due to the dual horizontal hinging. Once I get this sensation it is pretty automatic because my brain can sense this straight line, so it knows to just give it a little tug. Maintain that tight rope and I end up in follow through with horizontal hinging...automatically (CF pulls the club head). When hitting, at the end of the backswing I load the primary lever onto pressure point #3. This feels alot tighter with the right arm. Like a rattle snake all coiled up ready to strike, or a boxer in the clinch loading up a short powerful knockout punch (Like the 'crap smacker' vid). Then I use my right arm to thrust down and out. For me, it is critical to combine both of these with the flail. Trane, you will develop your power accumulators with training. Just a little advice I would give to you is don't focus on one accumulator back then another forward. Just use your right forearm flying wedge to pull to the top, let everything else follow while keeping your feet set in the ground. The sensation I get when I relax, and try to keep both feet set in the ground...then pull the right forearm with proper fanning and tracing, I sense 2 distinct points at the top. The inside of my right foot, and pressure point #3....BOTH points have loaded pressure. I think this might be 'stopping the backswing with your feet'....just another thing that I find with basic motion that is still there in total motion. I think that is cool. One thing I want to make clear to everybody is that these are just baby steps. I am just starting to work this stuff out, and it is a direct result of studying the book and this site and listening to the great advice from everybody on the forum. I am thankful for all the help I have received. You have all helped me progress more that I ever thought possible. I extend a very big thank you to Yoda, he made all this possible for me, and all of us. He is the tie that binds us all together. I hope there is still much more to come. Thanks again, everybody. Yikes, another long one....sorry if I am long winded guys, it just flows out sometimes. |
followup
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Here is a quote from your recent post "so the way I read it you have to take the lag (maintaining the pressure points) back towards the ball and down plane from the ball with either the #1 or #4 accumulator" So it reads as if you are thinking about #1 or #4 as what you focus on moving. They are the accumulators but you don't think let's take my left arm back or my left arm down- you are focusing on the hands going back - the accumulators are in essence "in the background". Now, depends what stage you are at - you may need to focus on the arms to learn the movement. So it's important to differentiate between learning - grooving components and what's happening in the fully functioning ultimate efficient athletic movement. So much like the last paragraph in 10-24-F- focusing on your arm motion could be a "Relative Translation Procedure" to a fully hand controlled pivot- (or in this case a hand controlled basic motion) |
I guess I am still out to lunch, after reviewing my notes, etc I still ??? Some of the comments seems to have jumped beyond Basic Motion.
Mike0, enjoy the posts, always learning, keep them coming. In 12-5-0 it is stated, Where applicable, interpret the items per the basic Stroke Pattern, that Hitting or Swinging. Either 12-1 or 12-2--not both at the same time. In my feeble incubator, I read this to mean if I was going to Hit, then I could use PP#1 while allow PP#3 to monitor lag. Since where is no shoulder turn and with swinging I must rely on using PP#2 and use PP#3 to monitor lag. This seems to work for me, but this seems to be a bit different than I am reading. Frankly I have yet to master the hitting motion, right arm drive and using only PP#3 and be able to monitor lad and create extensor action. Maybe my grip is at fault, maybe I am not applying the finger correctly or tight enough. I tried again today and was unsuccessful, though I know not to expect instant success, but it wasn't that it didn't feel right, it didn't work as a gap was often created at PP#1. Ugly. Maybe my hands are just too loose. Somewhere, sometime Yoda had written that Basic Motion should first be learned with just using the Hands as the starting place. I get the feeling that I have been doing this wrong or not as it should be if I am to follow the basic motion. Guess I will sit out and read somemore. In search... |
The Classroom
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I like that! Oh, and about that "I hope there is still much more to come." Not to worry... There is! :) |
Power source confusion
Interesting thread lots of good stuff to learn here.
One thing i've been confused about with basic motion is the power source. As the pivot is zeroed out and the swinger uses #4 accumulator is this not an independant left arm motion. Which is what we actually try to avoid in total motion? I've tried zeroing out the pivot and to me it doesn't feel right. The only way i can get a nice swinging sensation is starting the downsing with my feet and having a little pivot. Can anybody help enlighten me? Cheers Danny |
Brothers-in-Arms
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I believe you may have confused the Bat Minor with its elder brother the Pitch Basic Stroke per 10-3-B, thus making it feel "unright". Another reason why it doesnt feel right, I can only offer the answer: 'Habit'. For me to have extraneous movement during a 12-5-1 stroke, pivot or otherwise, would feel very alien. |
Thanks for the reply compda, but i am still pulling the with the left arm with zero pivot. The feeling that doesn't feel right is because the left arm is not inert and is not being propelled by the pivot as in total motion. Because it's moving itself in zero pivot it has muscular tension. I'm a bit stuck at the moment. Because is feels as if it;s ingraining a habit (i.e starting the downswing with mucsular effort of the left arm) that i don't want in my full swing.
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"The Gateway to your best golf"
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This should be the information you are looking for. There is nobody better to get this from than the man himself: http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...hlight=release Quote:
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Thanks for the quote KnighT. Yoda certaintly gives a very comprehensive description of basic motion. Unfortunately for me it only confirms my confusion.
It's frustrating for me because i love the idea of basic motion. The fact you can practice critical components in such a short swing. I already feel i have gotten to know the pressure points much better by doing it. The problem is my one of my biggest problems when playing is over accelerating via independent left arm motion and i'm afraid practicing basic motion will just enhance this. |
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Here comes some questions that might help clear up the problem Do you feel you have enough extensor action? Are you left or right handed? Is the right hand positioned correct on the grip? Which pressure point do you focus on? IMO Use only the right hand at start up. Only use Acc #1 in basic motion so you can obtain the 3D impact (DOWN,out and forward), and do it by using pressurepoint #1. Take a look at 6-B-1-0 and 6-B-1-D Post your thoughts |
Thanks for your interest Amen Corner.
In answer to your questions (i'm a swinger by the way): - I have enough extensor action to feel a slight stretch in my left arm. I apply it through pp #1. - I'm right handed and play right handed - I've done a lot of work on my grip and i pretty sure it's good although i've never had that verified by an AI. When gripping with my right i just focus on PP #3 and PP #1 being inline straight down the right side of the shaft towards the sweet spot. - I concentrate on pp #3 going back, then #2 and #3 going down. With regards to whats moving what in my basic motion, i drag it back with the right arm and then pull it down with my left. To give you a bit more info as to where i feel the problem may lie. When playing (i.e not basic motion) i feel like my downswing is initiated by my feet, whether it be a drive, pitch, chip or putt. But when doing basic i feel because theres no pivot, the radius is shortened to my left shoulder. This makes the change of direction feel quick, sharp, tense (all things i associate with playing badly) instead of the lazy and effortless feeling i get when playing well. I also feel like my balance is disrupted slightly. Thanks for the help, Danny |
Danny, I agree with the difficulty in concepts that you describe. If one truly executes a swinging basic motion ZERO pivot shot it has to have a left arm pull feel. Remember that the strictest definition of hitter and swinger ( so that it can be applied to basic as well as total motion) is of "pulling" - drag loading shaft ( as opposed to the hitters "push" - drive loading).
That means that basic motion swinging is still pulling but without the pivot motion ( as you describe from feet upwards - just like Percy Boomer so eloquently describes). Summary:- Basic motion has same alignments as total motion through impact BUT the feel for Basic motion swingers will be different when compared with total motion swingers( different power source)- both still "swing" because of drag load and "pulling". Hitters have same alignments and power source in Basic and total motion. I have never had this confirmed but this is the only way I can rationalise it - I await correction from learned colleagues! Maybe the Chip -pitch ( as used by Ben Doyle who almost exclusively teaches swinging) is the better option for a swinger's basic motion. This would enable the swingers basic motion to match the total motion in both feel and alignments. For swingers to get the pivot dragging left arm feel you need to have a pivot. MAybe thats why Ben does chip -pitch? See that video in gallery where Ben and Lynn demonstrating basic motion - Ben stresses that Pivot takes the hands forward... I have often felt that Homer's desire to academically unify hitting and swinging with concepts of equal importance for both is, perhaps, a misjudgement. ( emoticon for heresy??! but i will expand if questioned on a seperate thread)... but i read on another thread that the first edition did not formally isolate hitting and swinging ... it grew later... and he was planning to formally seperate teh two patterns in two different books... to me that makes sense... Hitting is a less pivot dominated stroke ( generally) and hence is suited to zero pivot stroke basi motion... as you describe the majority of a swingers strokes ( acquired and total motion) wil be pivot -driven hands controlled. |
simple thought
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But I did understand what you were saying- so ignore my nitpicking - and back to the regular scheduled show. |
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Agreed
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Regarding your right hand grip. Here is A WAY of checking it. Put the club on a table with the clubface facing "down". Now put your right hand on top of the grip and push the club against the table with pp #1 and #3. I would suggest that, since it is only 2 feet back and 2 feet through, you only use the right hand, i.e. pull back and push through. And using pp#1 and perhanps #3.Stand in front of a mirror and LOOK. The only thing that should move is the arms. Your grip pressure should be FIRM but FLEXIBLE. This could help you obtain the smoothness you are looking for. Regarding your total motion, have a look at 6-M-1. Looking forward to your comments. |
Thanks for your thoughts golfbulldog, made interesting reading. Nice to know i'm not going completely loopy :eyes:
Amen Corner i tried your right hand grip drill and not much really happened. The clubface was just trapped against the table. Quote:
Regarding your last comment about total motion. I read 6-M-1 and took it to mean in the context of my over accelerlation issues that i'm effectively shortening my radius too early, which is why it feels so quick. It's all about maintaining lag in the lower body and then allowing the accumulators to release naturally. |
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I am sorry for the incomplete instruction regarding the righthand grip. I was in a hurry going out but wanted to post the thread. When you put the right hand on the club and press with both pp#1 and 3, then take up the club and you should have a ok right handgrip. Modern teaching (which I was guilty to also before I found TGM)teaches out a grip where at the best only pp#3 could push the club against the table. Regarding the basic motion - I could be wrong about this, if that is the case,I am ready to listen and learn. There cannot be any pulling by the left arm in basic motion, since it is only 2 feet back and 2 feet through:hang: This statement is made with following in mind. The short distance and per 1L 7/8/10. What you are doing is building the structure of your swing. In this case the 3D impact and taking it to the end of followthrough,i.e both arms straight. Now continuing towards the total motion: When you have this solid base under control, go on to stage 2, where you start as in basic motion. Zero out the pivot, shoulder turn and wrist action first. Take the right forearm to the level to the ground position and hit some balls. When you are comfortable with it add shoulder turn and hit balls. Keep on the same procedure and adding hip turn, desired wrist action and lagloading. Having come this far and controlling it, you continue up to total motion. Now, this is only A WAY of doing it. Ok, I am going to bed now and will log on (my) tomorrow to see if there is a reward on me:crybaby: :violent: |
Topical discussion
Bump... any new thoughts guys....?
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Your inputs as well as the others have been in the incubator for a while. I have been reading the book regarding the pivots involvement in Basic Motion. My conclusion, wrong or right, is that there IS/WAS a reason for Homer to propose the Zero Pivot in Basic Motion. Here comes some quotes from the book: "without the Key of Educated Hands per Chapters 4 and 5, more information only means more confusion." "The Hands are the “Command Post” for all Feel processing." " Educate your Hands (9-0) to execute the Delivery Path " "key to control of the Golf Club is Educated Hands." Well you get it. With a zero pivot, you must educate your hands. Don´t you think that Homer would have recommended a little pivot in the basic motion, if he thought that IT(the pivot) would be to an advantage for the process of educating the hands? It is a whole other story if there are ANY tourplayer that chips/pitchs with zero pivot. But trust me on this one - they have EDUCATED HANDS |
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