Mr. Kelley -Are we sure he is correct all the time?
 

If we are reading the wonderful TGM, the more you read it, the more you start to wonder how on earth a guy could write a book covers virtually everthing.
But coming to playing golf, feeling the actual mechanic could be totally different. This is due to the experience that we built up since we were born, i.e when we are throwing a ball, we only think about the arm...
But infact, we are using the whole body and wrist to complete the task.

Now..IF I am correct... (being a novice TGM reader)

The extensor action, right wrist bending, and left wrist cock should have no relation at all.

But if we are linking those three item with our experience. if we are holding a club in our hands, while we are extending our right elbow, we are bending our right wrist. Right, right, right,,,, extensor is not a push and is just a slight pull pressure...
What about bending the wrist would have affect to the right elbow, and the right elbow bend would have affect with the left wrist cock....
Or is the momentum trigger the pivot rotation or the pivot generate the CF?

Is the dog wag the tail or the tail wag the dog?

Sometime, we just have to think opposite in golf, if you feel like you are not turning, you are rotating. if you think that you are turning, you are losing balance.

Could we think of something where we can modify TGM and make it a more comprehensive?

Shall we start from the Mind and Balance factor? Let chip in a few ideas....

“The relationships in the Golf Stroke can be explained scientifically only by geometry, because geometry is the science of relationships. So learn Feel from Mechanics rather than Mechanics from Feel.”

“As you apply this System you may suddenly realize you are now actually doing what you had always merely thought you were doing.” Or the way I like to think about it: you may not be doing what you thought you had always been doing!

3-0: “An important process for acquiring over-all skill is the process of translating the individual components from a conscious, deliberate, mechaincal manipulation, to an integral part of the whole, by reducing it a muscle-memory “Feel,” and without losing its individuality (bold by tongzilla), so vital for the selective introduction of special purpose Variations.”

1-J: “The Feel System translates them [factors and components] individually into a describable sensation- describable to, and by, the individual player (bold by tongzilla)....Let Mechanics produce and Feel reproduce.”

Start with Basic Motion, then Acquired Motion, then Total Motion. Concentrate on your first “wobbly point” in your stroke.

Remember, per 1-E: “It’s as premature to expect the complete results of instruction before the last factor is fitted in, understood and mastered.”

Re: Mr. Kelley -Are we sure he is correct all the time?
 

I do this- they are the Flying Wedges- every time I swing a club. Practicing proper Mechanics produces a precise feel.

I have yet to find anything Homer developed and thought out over his life working on the book that hasn’t been right on the money.

Right Wrist Bending?- Clarification
 

I'm not following you on the right wrist bend issue:
Depends on the grip that you are using- but if you're using a Strong Single Action Grip- Palms facing, etc.- Then any right wrist bend would be left wrist arch- is that what you mean? Or are you talking about a grip that has a turned left wrist with the right wrist still vertical- where any wrist cock becomes right wrist bend? Maybe you feel and or have right wrist bend in your movement- in which case you've got more movement than you need and control is going to be difficult. Or maybe that came from the Tomasello Video- I vaguely recall him using that terminology- or my final guess would be that you might be referring to just the start-up from address position where you start with a bent left and flatter right wrist and then "pull" them in-line. At any rate, although it's outside of this thread- could we get some feedback or explanation on that before moving onto the larger issue- as I am lost and confused.

Re: Right Wrist Bending?- Clarification
 

I think oztrainee recognises that right wrist bend, extensor action and right elbow bending are separate issues, and should be treated separately. However, I think oztrainee is trying to say that even though technically they are separate, when a human performs these actions, it is difficult to isolate these separate motions. For example, he mentions that extending the right elbow tends to bends the wrists.

This is my interpretation of what oztrainee is trying to say...maybe he may clarify for us.

Thanks Tongzzzz..... Such a clever boy....

Kissin' Cuzins
 

Guten tag, all. :D Just in from Germany and delighted to rejoin the LBG G.O.L.F. fray!

Extensor Action, Right Wrist Bend and Left Wrist Cock: We're talking about Machine positions and motions here. Specifically, the structure and motion of the Power Package. Without compromising their separate identities, each component is, in fact, related to the other. And per 1-L #21, that relation can be described by a geometric figure -- the Triangle.

As part of the Triangular structure -- Shoulders, Arms and Club -- the Left Arm Flying Wedge (the Left Arm and Club) operates within the vertical plane of the Left Wristcock Motion (which itself is totally independent of the Left Wrist relation to the Inclined Plane). The Right Forearm Flying Wedge is positioned at right angles to the Left Arm Wedge, with the Right Wrist in its Impact Fix degree of Bend (as determined by Ball Location). Extensor Action provides Power Package Mass, the Non-Accelerating Thrust of 6-C-0-2.

All in all, a very efficient, sturdy structure with which to accumulate and apply Force to the Ball.

Re: Mr. Kelley -Are we sure he is correct all the time?
 

An interesting thought, to ponder what is 'correct'. Perspectives influence much more than most may ever realize. Understanding the goal, creating a picture to obtain it, learning to feel that picture with your eyes closed.
Homer's 'picture' is a masterpiece with a perspective that will stand the test of time, once understood.

Apply Efficient Force (line of compression)
In Balance (stable machine)
Support Impact (feel the pressure points in your hands and feet)

Whatever your 'picture', the line of compression is the same for any given result, and Balance is a clear sign of meeting the goal.

Peace - Ed Zilavy

Feet Pressure Points
 

Ed

"Support Impact (feel the pressure points in your hands and feet)"

More about the pressure points in your feet, please. Thats the first I recall that being mentioned. Based on your posts, I get the impression that you feel balance is very very important. Is the pressure points (in the feet) related to that?

I think it was Percy Boomer (On Learning Golf) says something about the "Big Toes". When I get rolling of the right foot I need to really concentrate on keeping the Big Toe (of the Right Foot) down.

Thanks much.

PChandler

balance N Momentum
 

Love EDZ’s post. Personally, I don’t believe in total visual learning without having the influence of the knowledge of mechanics and balance. Seeing a swing, copying the shape is difficult to help golfers to commanding their hands, arms and pivot correctly. We can totally copying the way how top tour players swinging the golf club in slow motion (Frame images); but by doing so, would we have enough force to make the ball to fly. Learning just from Visual will only give us illusion in operating our fingers, hands, arms, pivot and lower body motion.
Assessing the shape of the golf swing is very much a reference of learning “Gateway”. As I think our brain works in a totally different way. Obviously this is very much of the learning style.
A lot of golfers believes golf swing is all about body rotation and the source of power is actually coming from the larger muscle group. Yes, yes, yes…. They are all correct… but is that how our mind work?
In a golf swing, if I am correct, stressing the shaft is one of the major item in generating force. (Club head lag pressure). Think about at “changing of direction” if we sway or having our right shoulder coming out too early, would we be able to maintain the lag better?????
Body’s parts are all link together, in order to achieve perfect balance. If our hands move, our body will carry out calculated routine in helping us to stay in better balance. A lot of people cannot copying the swing sequence, not because they do not understand the shape of the swing, is that the counter balance issue stopping them to rotate or perhaps stopping them to have a better finishing position.
Obviously good golfers should know both Pivot controlled hands and Hands controlled pivot. But if we look at how our brain works, understanding the hand sequence is more important then trying to manipulate our larger muscle group; would that be better to use our smaller muscle to trigger the larger muscle.
Should we have to understand the Active components and the passive components before learning to swing the club?
Understanding the plane line, impact fix and club head position is important, but more importantly is to be able to pre-program the event rather then copying the position.
Zero motion will give us total balance; but within the motion, minimize our thoughts on operating our larger muscle will help us to stay in better balance. Where balance dictating our tempo and contact accuracy, tempo and speed + contact accuracy dictating our ball flight. Allow me to say this, even though if I am wrong; we can only work along with the momentum and can never goes against it. The only thing that we can feel and sense within the mechanics, could that be just balance? And our mind is reacting to balance…. TAI CHI…..
Hee eee - Just a thought… is a forum isn’t it…