Does a Swinger to anything to square the face?
 

Just been toying around at the range, I'm a natural hitter, but like to practice swinging just for a change of pace sometimes. My question is does a natural swinger do anything to actively square the face, or does centrifugal force take care of it on its own. Is the face taken care of by your setup alignments then just let it go??

I can say that when I swing, I am a club longer with all my irons than when I hit. Swinging is tough in that you truly have to trust that the club will square up as opposed to hitting where I feel I can control the face better.

Funny, I was hitting plastic balls in the side yard this morning thinking about CF and acc#2-&#3 squaring the clubface. I only 'active' thought I gave myself was to not stop the pivot (which I do at times) and 'feel' the store position to follow through as one move- adding nothing. Meaning I want to trace the plane line from right hip to aiming point to arms straight as one move. This is why Homer hated fixed poistion golf because while we learn we get into those positions and never find our way out.

Maybe this was an answer - i don't know anymore :)

Here is a copy of one of Yoda's best ever posts...

femoore wrote:
So... even if one FEELS the release of the #2 accumulator very early in the downstroke, the preceding #4 release causes the club to actually be accelerated longitudinally, loading the Lag. Also, the Feel of WHEN these accumulators release, may actually be quite different than when they really do release, when viewed on video. For example, the FEEL of an early #2 accumulator release might actually be late, and vice versa.
denny wrote:
I and Croker and many others would like to "STOP THE INSANITY" of pulling to release pt. and then then throw. I wish people who teach this would teach our sex education classes then we wouldn't have a population problem. In an athletic toss(of a ball or tomahack the thrower may feel as if they uncocking wrist but the arm moves faster and does not let wrist uncock (unless they throw like a girl). "As soon as I transfer my weight I start releasing the club hard with my hands and wrist"------JACK NICKLAUSHold the angle and then throw Ain't happening in the same downswing.
Denny's point is well taken. As is feemore's in the prior post. What is actually happening in the Swinger's Stroke -- the Drag to Release Point followed by the Release Trigger (Throw) -- may not Feel like that! Nevertheless, you should in Slow Motion deliberately Practice the absolutely correct Mechanics in order to precisely Program your Computer. Look, look, LOOK in the mirror to make sure you're getting it right. Then, Practice the same Motion with your eyes closed. Only when the correct Mechanics have been thoroughly programmed can you turn your Feel System loose and trust your Total Motion to deliver the result you seek. In my January 13th post in the Forum The Golfing Machine / Power Package / The #3 Accumulator, I explained how to go about this: And here is one final, very important point. The #3 Accumulator is called Transfer Power for a reason: Especially in the Sequenced Release (4-D-0) of Swingers, it transfers the Power of the Released #2 Accumulator (Left Wrist Cock) into the Rolling Left Forearm and Hand. You should deliberately attempt to Feel this happening and do everything you can to encourage its Action. Here's how to do it: From the Top, Drag Load (7-19) by Pulling the Butt End of the Club toward the Plane Line. Immediately thereafter, begin a Non-Automatic Random Sweep Release (10-24-B) -- later you can 'kick it up a notch' with the Automatic Snap Release of 10-24-E -- by Uncocking your Left Wrist strongly Downward, also toward the Plane Line. That takes only a fraction of a second, and just as soon as you Feel the strong, Downward Uncocking Motion underway, use its momentum to begin the Roll of your #3 Angle On Line through Impact. You've Launched a Three-Stage Rocket: The Drag Load established your initial Thrust; your Uncocking Left Wrist created the highest Velocity you will be able to achieve; and the #3 Accumulator picked up that Velocity and sustained it into Impact. With Practice, this Sequenced Release blends into a single unified Motion and creates truly effortless, mystifying and almost magical Power. And when you get it right... You're not going to believe it!Remember, you have a nervous system that requires time to transmit its messages. And from Start-Down to Release just ain't a lot of time. So, once you Start Down... Get with The Program! _________________Yoda

The Clubface will square itself. TT
 

And here, what we are doing from the Top, is literally throwing the Clubhead down the Plane at the inside quadrant of the ball and what happens at this point - as the right arm straightens out, it squares the Clubface. You don’t have to square the Clubface. The Clubface will square itself.

Tom Tomasello
Video letter to Lee Dietnck
Chapter 1 5.37min.

TBall..if you hit the irons longer "swinging" than "hitting" than it sounds like it's a clubfitting issue. Hitter's tend to like/perform better with heavier/tip stiff shafts and swingers tend to like/perform better with lighter/softer tip shafts.

It's not a "stead fast rule" but it is a change that i've noticed in both clubfitting and stroke style.

For instance, I've been giving GolfChicago some tips on how to become a better "hitter" of the golf ball. I've gone out to his club twice and i told him the first time that he'd probably end up with either a lower lofted driver or something heavier and tip stiff in the shaft because he was using a 9.5 head with a Fuji Six (light and very tip soft) and he started using the same head with a heaiver much tip stiffer Mitsu Rayon Shax shaft and the difference was readily apparnet. Much flatter flight with less spin and longer drives.

allowing the swinging force to SWING
 

In a true swing CF takes care of everything. Given that over acceleration is a problem for the vast majority of people, I suspect there are relatively few who have really 'allowed' a true swing to happen once, let alone every time.

A true swing is the easiest motion to repeat if you let it, in my opinion. Learning to allow that 'swing' can be very difficult however, because all our instincts say "kill the ball" and as soon as you 'do' anything to the swinging club, you can't get that true swing back.

Swinging a heavy club, feeling like you swing in 'slow motion', allowing gravity to let the club 'fall' from the top are all ways to begin to feel a true swing. Ernest Jones and his pen knife, or even better - rope swinging - which will begin to show you that you can not rush the motion and that it must build smoothly.

When I really get the Rhythm, it feels like my hands and club are 'floating' through the motion, and the ball just gets in the way.

I like to warm up by hitting my 170 club 100 yards with a full motion (not choked down) and build up to full distance 10 yards at a time. This will teach you to allow the swinging force to work for you, rather than fight against it. Effortless power is not a myth ;)

Another big key that can be difficult is allowing rotation - the startup swivel - to happen. A true case of opposites, you will find that if you allow the rotation and the swing to happen, you can really "give up control to gain control" as Knudson would say.

CF takes care of everything BUT only correctly if the left and right hands are set properly aka Flying Wedges and the club is on plane with lag.

Or did I state the oblivious?

Indeed Ed, I've been looking into this area of the stroke and I'd like to hear more.

Theoretically, the start up swivel (standard wrist action on backstroke) should occur quite early in the stroke (i.e. during stary up!). However, I have found that this requires some sort of manual muscular manipulation to turn your wrist. If you really let CF do everything, and just take the lagging clubhead back, you would find that the face stays quite square with the ball for some time. If would appear as if you are using single wrist action. But if your wrists stay supple and let the weight of the club and CF do its magic, it will swivel before you get to the top. So should we teach an early startup swivel? Hmm...

tongzilla - this was one of the areas that Lynn and Ted helped me with at OCN. I had been loading for hitting (not allowing the rotation) but with basically everything else I had a pure swingers pattern.

Getting back the startup swivel was an odd feel at first, because I had worked into an underplane backswing and held off the rotation. There were two key feels that I focused on that once I got them back made swinging fun again....

One was feeling the toe 'up' position at halfway back. Not just the alignment, but getting more 'up plane', which I could only do if I first, and immediately, had a startup swivel. The second was getting my extensor action back. I had been underplane and was getting lazy with my extensor action.

The startup swivel really feels like it begins with the left shoulder, not so much of a hands only roll, but a roll of the entire lever assembly.

Two training aids that give this feel very well - the Medicus and the swing glyde. A momentus 'can' give this feel, if you allow it to, as can a figure 8 strap or swing jacket, but the later two aren't as direct. If you know the feel, its there with them, but they can be tricked.

Hope this helps - it really is a bit of a 'leap' to get that startup swivel going properly, but if you can do it on plane it is fairly easy to groove.

I think I remember just reading somewhere in TGM something about "The startup Swivel should happen as early as possible in the takeaway."