Hips- Delayed or Standard
 

In my everyday teaching I use a standard hip turn 98.99 percent of the time. Because of flexibility issues, I find that it works best for most all the golfing population. Throwing in a delayed hip turn will destroy a less than flexible golfer's ability to return to the ball with any rythm.

My question here is in the hips though. I have not found the answer in TGM, although Mr. Kelley (I believe) liked the delayed hip turn. How much should the hips turn for the 1)young flexible player 2)less flexible 3)not flexible players. If anyone has this information in degrees or something measurable I would appreciate the information.

I don't think it can really be put in that specific of detail because hip motion will always be a 'relative to the rest of the machine' issue. As you said, a Rhythm issue - the hands and chest moving through the impact zone together 'in synch'.

Hi VJ,

Homer Kelley did indeed prefer the Delayed Hip Turn. Despite the popularity of the Standard Action for centuries, he saw "absolutely no reason" for the Hips to lead the Shoulders in the Backstroke.

Regarding measuring the Turn -- or anything else in the Golf Stroke for that matter -- in degrees, he was dismissive. His geometrical relationships were meant for the Golf Course, not for the laboratory. For example: Flat, Level, Vertical, Straight Line and On Plane. These alignments lend themselves to visual confirmation and can be produced within acceptable tolerances (if not exactly).

So, it is not surprising that we do not find any 'degree' measurement or recommendation in his work. His only guideline would be this:

If something does not have to move, don't move it.

And the Right Hip need move only enough on the Backstroke to (1) clear a path for the Right Elbow and (2) place the Right Shoulder On Plane. As you have noted, those requirements will differ from player to player and, also, from Stroke to Stroke.

Which brings us full circle to why Homer didn't measure in degrees.

Old thread, I know
 

Hi all,

Did Homer not prefer delayed with Dragloading and Pre-turn with Driveloading?

Variations On the Variations
 

With Delayed Hip Action, the Shoulders lead the Hips on the Backstroke and the Hips lead the Shoulders on the Downstroke. The Pre-Turned Right Hip (at Address) is merely a variation of Delayed Hip Action.

Breaker 1-9 . . .

HEMP oh sorry HIP MOTION

7-14 HIP TURN The Hip Turn as a Stroke Component is strictly the product of the Knee Bend and the Waist Bend. Not otherwise could the weight be shifted and the Shoulder Turn Axis be tilted without moving the Head. A Hula Hula flexibility allows the Hips and Shoulders to be independent but coordinate and so avoid Right Elbow – and – Hip interference and its “Roundhousing” Throwaway (4-D-0) during the Start Down – the Delivery Line ROLL PREPARATION (12-3-22).

Except for its being, in itself, the Weight Shift, the Hip Turn is a motion permitting – rather than causing – the other effects, actions and motions of the Pivot. Weight Shift is strictly a HIP MOTION. Substituting a Head Motion and/or Knee Motion will make Swaying inevitable.

The Hip Turn can be used to control or modify Hip Action Variations and prevent Zone #1 (9-1) exaggerations. See 2-N and 7-16.

Could somebody speak to the above? Do you think that Standard Hip action could prevent Roundhousing as a result of the hips LEADING the shoulders on the Backstroke and vicey versey on the Downstroke. Thus the Lag of the Shoulders (Pivot Train) is present in BOTH the Backstroke and Downstroke. So the Hips leading set up the Right Shoulder going downplane instead of out via Axis Tilt? Maybe? Huh? What?

Everytime I try delayed hip action I end up with a sway.

Standard hip action helps my pivot. I'm probably just not talented enought to use delayed hip action

For me anyway, I find that the Delayed Hip turn helps me on the downstroke as my bad habit as Yoda and Ted found was for that right hip to get in the way of my hands on the downswing causing all manners of problems.
I have been thinking and toying with the idea of pre-turning the right hip on the backstroke so that I can get it out of the way and let the hands move in the correct path and then this would help in keeping it out the way on the downstroke. Does this sound right?
Alex