Turned Shoulder Plane (again)
 

When using the TSP, assuming you want some elbow bend at impact, seems like you have a choice of having either the trail shoulder or forearm on the same plane as the shaft at impact. Which one is it? Why?



:confused:

Not without a straight arm I cant. What does it take for the shoulder to be considered on the plane? If it requires the shoulder to be bisected by the plane, I don't see how you can have both the trail shoulder and forearm on the same plane angle without a straight arm. If it only requires the shoulder to rest on top of the plane then I can see how you could have the trail shoulder and forearm on the same plane angle with a very, very slight bend at the elbow.

Can you draw me a picture rwh? Or better yet post a pic of someone [-o<

Unfortunately I don't have my copy anymore, and without some other visual depicting what your saying is possible, a fourth stickmen for example, I just can't swallow it rwh, sorry :( However, I have found an answer that Mike O gave when I asked a similar question early last year :oops:

So in his opinion the stickman in the middle is closest to the real world reality.(hope that's right) I've seen photo's showing golfers using the TSP and looking like each of the stickmen, and I'm just curious which variant TGM would advocate. So far the middle guy is 1up. If you can draw a fourth alternative or post a pic of someone doing differently, please do. How bout the TSP's number one fan. Yoda?

Anyone else, or is it case closed?

Right Shoulder On Plane or not.
 

The second and third picture (from the left) are both correct. Just different body types and/or different amount of Axis Tilt.

You always want the entire Right Forearm (which includes the Right Elbow) to be On Plane at Impact giving you maximum support and minimizing Impact deceleration during this violent collision. This will almost certainly mean having the Right Shoulder slightly above Plane. There is absolutely no problem with that (10-13-D).
The more Right Elbow bend you have during Impact, the more likely you are using a shallower Plane Angle (e.g. Elbow Plane or Hands Only Plane), and the more above Plane your Right Shoulder becomes. When using the Turned Shoulder Plane, your Right Elbow should only have a slight bend at Impact, therefore your Right Shoulder will only be slightly above Plane.



The red line represents the Turned Shoulder Plane, which was drawn through the Right Shoulder joint when Lynn was at the Top. The tiny blue dot represents his Right Shoulder, which is clearly above Plane.

[quote=tongzilla]

Are you absolutely sure that this is a statement of fact or it is an opinion???....


Tom Watson had a lot of elbow bend and his plane angle wasn't shaloow...He shalllowed it out by a full sweep release and an increasing the amount of Axis Tilt...

As a matter of fact if you maintain too much right elbow bend it is difficult to get the right forearm pointing at the plane line during release and impact....

[quote=annikan skywalker]It's opinion not fact, I'm just generalising. But remember I'm assuming that the Right Forearm is On Plane (as it should be), not above or below Plane, as a few of your photos show.

Would you agree or disagree? That in order to have the right forearm pointing on-plane as your assumption states...that the amount of right elbow bend depends on whether or not the right wrist is Uncocked(Tom Watson), Level(Mac O'Grady) or Cocked (Donna Andrews)....Also the degree of Waist Bend, Axit Tilt and Knee Bend along with numerous other factors greatly influence this alignment.....

checkout the pics...they are not an opinion and they are not in a random order at all.....As a matter of fact each picture was carefully selected and placed to reveal certain relatioship variations to the others....



Another interesting note...Plane Angle through Impact...

Watson - Squared Shoulder?
Couples - Turned Shoulder?
O'Grady - Elbow Plane?
Andrews - Hands Only?

Are you suggesting it's possible to get your Right Forearm On Plane without a Level Right Wrist? I don't see how that's possible.

I'm not suggesting anything...just trying to make you think before you make such bold statements such as "always"...

The degree of right elbow bend is greatly affected not only by plane angle such as the turned shoulder plane...but ball location. right forearm angle of approach. amount of wrist bend, Right Shoulder Location, Amount of Downstroke Hip Slide..etc......etc...etc..


So lets assume the right forearm is on-plane.. the right wrist is level and bent....
Squared Shoulder Plane would have less amount of elbow bend less Waist Bend and Knee Bend than Turned Shoulder Plane..thus one would assume the Elbow Plane would have more elbow bend ,Waist Bend and Knee Bend....


Is the above "always" true?