For Lee Dietrick or anybody who cares to answer
 

I was intrigued by Tom Tomasello's video directed to Lee Dietrich in which he teaches to use arms only downswing with zeroing pivot motion , without any swivel action and swinging the arms only DOWN and OUT,not FORWARD. To me it looked like an angled-hinge swinging motion and thus in contrast with GM teachings. Anyway I gave it a try and got good results with short irons but not with long irons
which will result pulled or faded/sliced. I also have the feeling of coming into impact with a layback clubface.
Maybe it was me not executing the swing properly?
Lee Dietrich,did u have the same problems? and did Tomasello's suggestion fixed them? Are u still following Tomasello's advices?
Do anybody follow Tomasello's teachings?

Thank you
from Italy

Libero

I follow them (I studied with Tomasello, today I'm reconciling what I learned at my 3-day school with Tomasello and the new changes in the 7th edition)...

how long have you been developing the Tomasello approach??? There is no TGM approach that produces instant miracles...

I would start with the pivot...review all of the Tomasello videos in the gallery section play particular attention to the pivot instruction....so many golfers want to blame the right arm for the problems when the real issue is a faulty pivot.

DG

Hi Delaware,
thanks for ur reply.
Actually I practiced Tomasello's teaching only a couple of weeks,so I can't say I did mastered it yet. The point is I found his teaching easy to follow (even though not easy to master completely),compared with the slippery path of TGM.
The reason I'm enquiring about Tomasello is that,the first time I tested his method on a golf course I happen to hit the longest drive of my life (about 295 yards)and perfectly strait too.Quite thrilling for my age 53.
That was on the first hole. Then I did nearly the same on the third hole. Then...never again! but there must be an explanation for that. I tried many times later to duplicate the feel of those drives but with no results.
I said I founf it easy to swing Tomasello's way because I only think of swinging the amrms down and out on plane, consciously thinking of uncocking both wrists at impact in order to take a divot,that's all. No pivot,no hips,no shoulders,no wrist roll,no swivel(too many nos maybe?) If I check that swing in slow motion and speaking in terms of TGM, I see an angled hinge at impact,with the clubface laid back,very close to the vertical hinge motion . As I said all that works well with short irons,without losing any distance. I can swing well that way up to the 7 iron,but no longer clubs that that.
I've watched only Tomasello's videos I found on this site,so I miss something maybe,because he said just to forget about the pivot in those videos.
So can u tell me what else you do in your swing that i don't do,
or what u do differently. I.E.: do your long irons go strait?

Thanks

Libero

I'm no expert on Tommy's way but can help.

If you use more of a right arm thrust (pushing against pp#1) you'll get more of an angled hinge.

If you use more of the "magic of the right foreamr" but thrusting "down and out" with the tricep muscle you'll still get a horizontal hinge motion.

DG does that make sense?

Do you tend to have a very upright motion/plane? It sounds to me that you may tend to be overplane, in which case you may find it helpful to think of getting your hands more "above your right shoulder" rather than above your head (hence slightly more 'behind' you). In short, you need a better plane angle to allow you to get a bit more 'out' rather than just all 'down'.

Thanks to both of you Jim and EdZ.

Jim,the first of your statements partly applys to my swing. I realize that I apply pressure on pp3 mostly and pp1 as well but less than pp3 while uncocking my wrists.I didnt consider of using tricep muscle as this pertains to "hitting" in TGM
what shall I do to apply the "magic of right forearms exactly?

EdZ:
On the contrary,my swing is pretty flat,I never go with my hands above right shoulder high on my backswing,using start up swivel of left wrist.

Libero

Libero,

Sorry for the delay in replying.

Here is my take on what you are doing.

First,

though TT recommends you do not consciously think of the pivot, he does not say there is zero downswing pivot. Somewhere in the tape he mentions when you Karate Chop the sides of the hands toward the ball, that it will look very different on video to what it feels like. He also says that the pivot respond to your intention to move the hands toward the ball. (those are my words, as I do not remember TT exact words)

Second,

I believe TT wanted there to be more of a a full roll of Horizontal Hinging rather than the half roll of Angled Hinging. That is probably why your longer clubs are tending to go to the right, that's the layback.

I have not watched the tape in a while but will in the next few days and report back. I do not remember what questions I asked TT before he sent me the tape. I still follow the basics of what he sent to me which is TGM.

Lee

Lee hi! thanks for ur reply.

1st
youre right abt TT pivot motion and I understodd what he means. maybe I didn't express it correctly. What I meant was that I don't have to start the downswing with hips but with arms motion which will pull the body into impact,followthrough and finish,not that the pivot must not move!

2nd
the motion of the right hand he is showing (exactly a karate chop
looking motion) is not the same he is showing when holding a club.
At least this is what I see in the videos. If I try to perform the karate-chop-like motion of the right hand and think (as he says) of hitting only down and out I always find myself with an
angled hinging of the left wrist actually closer to a vertical hinge than horizontal.
For what I understood he saw that your shots too had the tendency of going to the right and he was suggesting you to think of swinging the hands forward,past your left side,in order to straiten or even drawing your shots. Infact he was showing that in such a way the toe of the club (but well past impact),was pointing to the sky.With Media Player I cannot watch the videos frame by frame so I don't know how is the clubface at impact. Anyway if you think of just swinging your arms past your left side that's also hitting forward,not merely down and out,no
karate chops.
So I would like to make it clear: karate chops or not?
In the end did u follow TT advices and how are u swinging nowadays?

many thanks Lee

Libero

Libero

When using the "Magic of the Right Forearm", make sure you are going down and "out" towards the plane line. If you don't have enough "out" when the right arm is straigtening, you probably won't get the horizontal hinge you are trying to achieve.

When I do slow motion swings using Tomasello's procedure my right elbow appears to be just ahead of my left foot when my arms achieve the condition where they are both straight.

EdStraker
thank you,I understand what you mean,but if i do that I'm not just uncocking the right wrist (the karate chop that TT is showing in the video,but without a club in his hands). If you try to do just that with a club in your hands you can't achieve any horizontal hinge. I was attracted to that move because it looked so simple and easy to perform (infact too simple) but so all my shots are going to the right,especially mid-long irons or,if I want to avoid that,I get pulls.
So that's not the solution to build a swing on,not for me.
Ciao