hands in downswing?
 

i have a question regarding getting the hands in position on the downswing. i have a dvd called 'explosive golf' by a gsed guy mike jacobs i think. he says the hands are just like vice clamps that hold the club and the body core is what brings everything back to place. i thought i read here though that the hands still guide the downswing. also, if that is the case, where does pulling the left hand/arm come into play? what what am i missing? thanks

#-o This is the issue that still befuddles a good many golfer and instructor.

In Golfing Machine speak, letting the "body core" dictate what the hands do is called "Pivot Controlled Hands".

Letting the hands dictate to the pivot their assignments, that is called "Hand Controlled Pivot".

Which procedure is correct? Both are correct - it just depends on what result you desire. A procedure is correct for a particular instance if you are seeking the result that procedure produces.

Consider:

- A slice is correct if you need to bend one around trouble.
- A topped shot is correct if you need to scuttle one beneath bushes and cause it to run up near or onto the green.
- A bent left wrist is correct if one desires to execute a true lob shot.

If your desire is to assign to Geometry precedence over Physics - which increases precision, then use your Hands to control the Pivot. e.g Monitor your hands while chopping a tree.

If your desire is to assign to Physics precedence over Geometry and hence let Force dictate alignments - which reduces precision, then use your Pivot to control the Hands. e.g. Monitor your body while chopping a tree.

Motion is Geometry and Action is Physics.

Which produces more distance?
That I believe is the million dollar question. :wink:

Landshark,

I'm sure that Mike's intent, given that his DVD is only about Swinging, was to prevent viewer from applying right arm thrust.

Cheers

i'm sure you're right about that, but in watching the jeff hull segments, i get the impression he leads and uses his hands more, even though he's a swinger. i'm just confused whether one is better or the more consistent and easier way.

Basically the left arm and clubshaft form what is called the "primary lever assembly". It is a law of the universe that to move something you have to create a pressure against it. In golf there is only two points which can move the primary lever assembly - pp4 and pp1.

For swingers - where the left arm is against the chest, you create a pressure to drive the entire primary lever assembly into impact. At the same time, the rotated lag pressure point is thrusted towards the ball or along the plane line at an aiming point.

Thats really the way it works...

The hands are always aiming whilst the pivot drives the left arm and club....

I assume you play basketball...

Take a bball and try a 3-pointer shot by:

1. Focusing on your calves, thighs, shoulders - how much force they need to exert to pop the ball into the net. As for the hands, let the chips fall where they may.

2. Aiming with your hands.

Take 10 shots with each procedure and see the stats.

Basketball & Golf
 

I'm not sure Comdpa exactly what side of the fence your on with this, but I like your basketball analogy. I'm not a basketball stud, but I did work on my shot last year quite a bit as both of my sons were playing on city leagues & made for some great father/son bonding!

I know there is is no way I can hit 3's without using my legs & feet. I watch some of the guys in the NBA do it with just upper body, but these guys are huge compare to my whopping 155#'s (wet:laughing9 !!) A lot of those NBA guys shooting 3's still use the lower body.

So as this relates to golf, is you must use the lower body to hit powerful golf shots. You don't have to do, it...we dont in basic motion, and most dont in acquired motion, but in total motion powerful shots....my computer has finally (after 2 months of incubating on this) told me the lower body has to do several things to allow my arms, hands etc. to move thru the ball correctly.

I have to agree with Mathew...about the lag pressure & the primary lever...

I personally take the clug away with the hands, back with the hands, up with the hands...all the way to the top and then SLIDE the hips....as I drag load...then I rotate the hips as I swing the left arms firing #4, #2, & #3 accumulators down the base of the plane line. So, in my mind, I see this as hands controlled pivot, even though my hands didn't move my pivot on the downswing, as it did on the backswing. However, if I don't slide and rotate, I can't clear the right hip, I will round house, or run out of right arm which makes me hit it fat or flip the club face....and LEFT of my target!

I'm still new to TGM so if I've butchered this stuff guys (Mathew, Compda, Yoda & gang) let me know...but my ball striking has improved so much, I feel like I'm a professional witha 15 handicap! :laughing9

ok. i'm starting to get it to a degree. without all the tgm wording, etc, i should let the body do its thing as pretty much described, but give a place or location for it to go with using the hands. am i getting the jist of it?

Bullseye!
 

landshark,

You pretty much got it.

Put your focus on the hands and whatever the body does, let it do.

In the golf swing, all we want to do is to take the hands up the plane to the Top and then back down the plane through to the Finish.

Impact is not a station or location to aim for as it is incidental to the swing.

A caveat however. For some of us, the body will disrupt this up and down path the hands must take, but that is another topic altogether...

thanks for the confidence. one more quick question: direction generally is good but misses tend to be thinned shots if anything. i have a feeling that i tend to go more forward in the swing rather than going more 'down'. is there an easy solution?