Roll vs. Over-Roll
 

I was at an insurance convention in Myrtle Beach. I was so bored and it was so nice I decided to play hooky and hit balls. I noticed the range where I was hitting had two guys that were GSED's. So I decided to check them out. Very nice guys. We talked a little machine and then I asked if I could observe some of their lessons.

Both were influenced by Mr. Doyle and Tommy T. One lesson they were helping a guy hit the inside aft quadrant and maintaining a flat left wrist . . . the number 1 imperative.

They had the guy hitting little shots with his left hand only and then having a significant roll afer impact. The demonstration was when the club was parallel to the ground, the Clubface was pointing at the ground. The student was struggling IMO because he wasn't hitting DOWN and unloading #2 to fully uncocked. But whatever.

I asked the AI about his hinging preference. He said he used horizontal hinging almost exclusively, which makes sense based on his demo. Then the gave a free clinic on the use of the right arm. They were advising a significant amount of roll with the right arm as well.

I guess my questions as a result are . . .

If employing Horizontal Hinging where would the Clubface point when the Clubshaft is parallel to the ground in the Downstroke? If it is pointed at the ground, would it be "over" Rolled?

Also, where would the Clubface point when the shaft is parallel when using Angled Hinging?

Thanks!

Bucket

Horizontal hinge puts the club in the classic 'toe up' position

angled hinge puts the club in the 45 degrees position

verticle hinge puts the club facing the ground

on the backswing/downswing at parallel (see original post), not follow through, where yes it would be pointing to the sky

So would you say anything rolled more than "toe up" is over-rolled?

Thanks!

Bucket

"They had the guy hitting little shots with his left hand only and then having a significant roll afer impact. The demonstration was when the club was parallel to the ground, the Clubface was pointing at the ground. The student was struggling IMO because he wasn't hitting DOWN and unloading #2 to fully uncocked. But whatever. "

Hold it. I'm confused. In the backstroke, if the clubface is pointing at the ground, you have done that wierd feeling "reverse" roll to set up the Vertical Hinge. Any rolling coming forward defeats the entire purpose of use of that Hinge, right?

And he exclusively teaches the (Dual) Horizontal Hinge, even to Hitters? That didn't work too well for me (pre-LBG). I could make a watermellon hook.

Charlie

Re: Roll vs. Over-Roll
 

Stand up straight, arms extended from your sides.

Turn palms up to the ceiling.

Move your body into address position.

Now Look at the position of your lead palm.

That is the full travel of horizontal hinging.

Charlie,

Sorry for the confusion. The Clubface was facing the ground after Follow-Through.

Regards,

B

In the follow through, post impact - a 'true' swingers move (using CF only) yes, that would be over roll - however - the sweetspot can stay on plane with the clubface facing down and that is really the key - the on plane sweet spot - assuming impact and separation conditions are met. Any additional 'on plane' rotation is extra insurance against compression leakage at the 'possible' expense of clubFACE control if the finish swivel is 'early'.

OK Bucket, gotcha 5 by 5. :) Now I see why you were talking about an "over"roll. Face down is 45* past the roll for a Horizontal. Seems like the swivel finish would come out very wierd..

Charlie

E,

Thank you for the help.

And it could have been that he was just over-emphasizing this in the drill to get the student to feel Roll. Didn't ask it just looked weird. I have also seen Mr. Doyle do this in his tape. So maybe it's a Doyle thing?

Just to clarify . . . you are saying that the Clubshaft can satisfy the definition of being on plane (low end pointing at the Plane Line if not parallel), BUT the Clubface could be facing the ground? And once you have executed proper alignments at Impact and Separation, what happens afterwards doesn't matter?

thanks!

B