Swing analysis. Drawing lines.

[metallion]

I had a great time looking over Randys shoulder as he went to a nitty-gritty analysis of a swing.
Now I'd like to be 100% sure about how to draw those lines.

From this post: http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/v...hp?p=8188#8188

If you have the energy or the time, please draw a few more lines. When drawing your lines, please reference the book pics as close as possible. Note that we are referencing clubShaft control. Draw a line up the shaft at address. Draw a second line like 10-6-b and please note where it bisects the arm pit. Third line shoulder tip area. Upon completion, have a plane party.

Line 1. Shaft plane
Simply a line along the shaft and through the hosel. Not through the sweetspot or through the ball. I assume at adjusted address.

Correct?

Line 2. As per 10-6-B. Turned shoulder plane
Draw a line from centre of ball through the armpit. It should bisect the armpit as if it was a rod from the ball that is put under the arm and then tucked up as far as it goes towards the armpit.

(Maybe it would be more correct to say that the line should be drawn through the sweetspot of the club at impact, regardless of the ball position??)

Correct?

Line 3. "Randy: Third line shoulder tip area"
My interpretation is that this is again the turned shoulder plane line. From the centre of the ball to the highest point of the right shoulder at the top of the backswing. My interpretation is that this should be the same as Line 2 above.

Correct?

[densikat]

All correct except I believe line 3 would reference the squared shoulder plane.

[nevermind]

I dont want to take the focus away from metallions question, but looking at 10-6-B I've come up with a couple more. Does the fact that we can see the face of the plane in the pictures in the book result in any illusions? Has updating the pictures ever been considered?

[densikat]

nevermind: Because it is a full plane I dont think there are any illusions, the pictures demonstrate what I imagine Homer desired, the right flying wedge setup on the plane at setup, and the right shoulder moving back to the turned shoulder plane at the top.

As for updating pictures, I am not sure on that one, but I dont think it would happen. I would imagine the book would stay fairly unchanged other than technical content that is going to be changed. Pictures and video of these concepts can be found around a few tgm forums.

[golfingrandy]

Thanks Fredrik for your question.

Dave is correct.

Lets consider 10-6. As I mentioned we are looking at clubshaft control only so we want to look at the plane as if the shaft is laying flat and resting on said plane. Recall the movie screen analogy with a hole cut into the center? This is what Homer did with his visquene plane.

Please note each plane and its pic reference.

10-6-A is no more than tilting the whole screen whereby the elbow makes contact.

10-6-B is no more than the screen tilted whereby it bisects the armpit area. The Turned part is this is where the right shoulder is going to be "turned" to which Homer gives a requirement of a Flat Backstroke Shoulder Turn. Here is a very big key. The hands are precisely at right shoulder level at the top.

I hope your seeing this ok.

What then happens is that the Squared is slightly higher and Turning is even slightly more higher. Note that the right shoulder is still striving to get on the selected plane on the backstroke. What has changed is the steepness of said stroke. Each one then gives a different feel with Hinges and much more. This also requires, when one uses a steeper plane, a change in ball position. Steeper is always more forward towards the low point.

In closing, you can almost lay the flat surface of the plane/screen on the shoulders for Turning Shoulder Plane.

Hope this helps some more. This could be delved into so deep we would need a 3-day Bash just on plane and its associated differences in feels and motions. Forums will fail everytime in this type of talk. Sorry.

Thanks so much my friend.

Randy

[golfingrandy]

I dont want to take the focus away from metallions question, but looking at 10-6-B I've come up with a couple more. Does the fact that we can see the face of the plane in the pictures in the book result in any illusions? Has updating the pictures ever been considered?

densikat is on a roll. Before I add some more info. densikat has been at this for some time via long distance communication. Every morning during my checking on numbers from work online, densikat and few others begin talking golf and asking questions on IM. Many times this becomes quite an unreal and exciting process. It is quite easy to send large amounts of data, like pics and vids, with this medium.

Onward. The pics that Homer created will remain in the next and only Edition. As densikat stated, the forums that focus on Homer's work have used the improvement of technology to enhance the experience for all golfers. In the future, the chances of a companion book, vids, pics, etc. are quite possible and probable. This again does not replace the "work" but will aid the golfers learning and experience.

In closing, the one item that cannot be jeopardized is the vocabulary. No where in golfdom can those who know The Golfing Machine can communicate across the board with clarity of action. When one sees this and why the vocabulary was created by Homer, it becomes even more amazing and beyond that, makes damn good sense.

Thanks

Randy

[nevermind]

and thankyou guys for also answering my questions. I can now confidently look at these pics without worrying about the camera angle

[metallion]

This could be delved into so deep we would need a 3-day Bash just on plane and its associated differences in feels and motions. Forums will fail everytime in this type of talk. Sorry.

After reviewing the Dartfish analysis I just got from Chuck I can only agree. There is a LOT more to analysis than I could imagine.

Humblified I stand