Motor Learning??????

[lagster]

!. How long do most of you find it takes with your students(or yourselves) to make a MECHANICAL change?

2. Do you find this time varies if the student is making more than one mechanical change, or stays about the same?

3. How long before the student is able to take the change(or changes) to the course, and do better than with his former technique?

4. Have you found that a specific number of repetitions per practice session is necessary to cause the change?

5. Have you found that going beyond a certain number of repetitions, or certain amount of time per session is counter-productive?


In general, as probably most of you have noticed also, if the initial change or changes cause the student to immediately produce better shots, he will take to the changes fairly quickly. However, how long it takes for the change, or changes to become part of his standard technique, is another thing.

[bts]

Learning mechanics is not that difficult. It's about the intention and detaching from the ball (impact, ball flight and result) and the target.

Do it precisely demands repetition.

Take it to the course is about detaching from the playing situations.

[tongzilla]

The biggest change takes place in the Cocunut.

I remember Ben Doyle said during the Woodmont School that Homer told him to change something in his swing (can't remember exactly what it was). Ben implemented that change immediately, and never went back to his old habit!

[ldeit]

It is my belief that for a student to change his swing he/she must understand what they are doing cognitively, visually, and kinesthetically. The student will perform as they perceive in their mind which is why some can make a change quickly as in tongzilla's example.

But to truly own the change, they do so in all three modes.

ldeit

[Trig]

Speaking as a student, I think it is very hard to change the mechanics of the swing. Over the years I have a difficult time shedding old habits, and they still creep back in. It can be done, however. Some things for me take a long time, then one day it just clicks, or, hatches from the incubator if you will!

Sometimes changes are impossible if there is some basic fundemental getting in the way. A good teacher hopefully spots these right away.

I have a friend who is struggling. He just had a lesson and I was amazed that his grip and setup were never addressed. He has his right hand very weak and really on top of the club. His right forearm is very high and off plane at address. His stance is extremely closed. None of these things were brought up in his lesson. And he wonders why he can't make a move!

[phillygolf]

!. How long do most of you find it takes with your students(or yourselves) to make a MECHANICAL change?

2. Do you find this time varies if the student is making more than one mechanical change, or stays about the same?

3. How long before the student is able to take the change(or changes) to the course, and do better than with his former technique?

4. Have you found that a specific number of repetitions per practice session is necessary to cause the change?

5. Have you found that going beyond a certain number of repetitions, or certain amount of time per session is counter-productive?


In general, as probably most of you have noticed also, if the initial change or changes cause the student to immediately produce better shots, he will take to the changes fairly quickly. However, how long it takes for the change, or changes to become part of his standard technique, is another thing.

Lagster,
Great questions!

This is a subject (sports psychology) which has really been at the forefront of sports the last 10 years.

In summary, I am not a teacher. However, Ldeit had a great reply. Add to his anxiety. Performance anxiety, in my opinion, is a major major issue in motor learning.

We've all seen (and done) someone take a unbelievable practice swing - only to have that swing melt when its 'for real'. Why?

Thats the question in my opinion. I have never felt the 21 day repetition worked. I do believe that non mechanical thoughts on the course allow the player to come out - though 'swing thoughts' would say otherwise.

Bottomline, I dont know. But if you would like alot of references (start with Nideffer), I can supply.

Patrick

[lagster]

Originally Posted by lagster

!. How long do most of you find it takes with your students(or yourselves) to make a MECHANICAL change? 2. Do you find this time varies if the student is making more than one mechanical change, or stays about the same? 3. How long before the student is able to take the change(or changes) to the course, and do better than with his former technique? 4. Have you found that a specific number of repetitions per practice session is necessary to cause the change? 5. Have you found that going beyond a certain number of repetitions, or certain amount of time per session is counter-productive? In general, as probably most of you have noticed also, if the initial change or changes cause the student to immediately produce better shots, he will take to the changes fairly quickly. However, how long it takes for the change, or changes to become part of his standard technique, is another thing.

Lagster,
Great questions!

This is a subject (sports psychology) which has really been at the forefront of sports the last 10 years.

In summary, I am not a teacher. However, Ldeit had a great reply. Add to his anxiety. Performance anxiety, in my opinion, is a major major issue in motor learning.

We've all seen (and done) someone take a unbelievable practice swing - only to have that swing melt when its 'for real'. Why?

Thats the question in my opinion. I have never felt the 21 day repetition worked. I do believe that non mechanical thoughts on the course allow the player to come out - though 'swing thoughts' would say otherwise.

Bottomline, I dont know. But if you would like alot of references (start with Nideffer), I can supply.

Patrick

__________________________________________________ ___________

People learn to do all kinds of things... drive a car, type, walk, dance, etc..

Any of these would probably be tricky to change, once the intitial pattern, or GROOVE, is formed.

Look, for example, at Billy Mayfair in putting, and Charles Barkley in the full swing. These are both athletic people.

Others, like Tiger, and probably someone like Mac O., seem to be able to make changes rather easily.

I'm not sure about the 20 day thing either, but it does seem to be about that for some things, and some people.

[metallion]

It is never easy to incorporate a swing change, but I have found it to be much easier if you or the student is convinced that is has to be done. How many times haven't you seen an instructor telling the truth to a "deaf" student.

Convincing the student can be done in a few ways:
- Providing some basic understanding of G.O.L.F.
- Video analysis
- Lies and marketing

[phillygolf]

__________________________________________________ ___________

People learn to do all kinds of things... drive a car, type, walk, dance, etc..

Any of these would probably be tricky to change, once the intitial pattern, or GROOVE, is formed.

Look, for example, at Billy Mayfair in putting, and Charles Barkley in the full swing. These are both athletic people.

Others, like Tiger, and probably someone like Mac O., seem to be able to make changes rather easily.

I'm not sure about the 20 day thing either, but it does seem to be about that for some things, and some people.

My point is, everyone is different. 35, 29, 220 might not work for me, but might for you.

And it took Tiger almost 2 years to get his hands outside the clubhead.

[neil]

Do you mean clubhead outside the hands?