Base of the Neck vs. Through the Head "centers"

[brianmanzella]

Ok.....

Let's assume that we KNOW that there should be no SWAY of the 'pivot center.'

So, you can use the "through the head" center or the "base of the neck" center.

Which one has the BEST stroke pattern performance.

I will define this 'performance' in the following way:

A. Best able to create and sustain lag pressue
B. Best able to 'draw' a straight plane line
C. Best able to control hinge action

Got it?

Ok.

Here is my OPINION:

I think creating and sustaining lag pressue is easier with the base of the neck.

I think staying or getting 'on top' (or behind, if you prefer) of the sweetspot with your #3 pressure point—as in Horizontal Hinging—is easier with the base of the neck.

I think performing ANGLED hinge action or vertical hinge action to be easier with the "through the head" center.

If you bend you plane line too much to the left as a rule, you will find it easier to NOT bend it left with the "base of the neck" center.

If you bend the plane line to the right as a rule, , you will find it easier to NOT bend it right with the "through the head" center.

What do ya'll think?

[Yoda]

Ok.....

Let's assume that we KNOW that there should be no SWAY of the 'pivot center.'

So, you can use the "through the head" center or the "base of the neck" center.

Which one has the BEST stroke pattern performance.

I will define this 'performance' in the following way:

A. Best able to create and sustain lag pressue
B. Best able to 'draw' a straight plane line
C. Best able to control hinge action

Got it?

Ok.

Here is my OPINION:

I think creating and sustaining lag pressue is easier with the base of the neck.

I think staying or getting 'on top' (or behind, if you prefer) of the sweetspot with your #3 pressure point—as in Horizontal Hinging—is easier with the base of the neck.

I think performing ANGLED hinge action or vertical hinge action to be easier with the "through the head" center.

If you bend you plane line too much to the left as a rule, you will find it easier to NOT bend it left with the "base of the neck" center.

If you bend the plane line to the right as a rule, , you will find it easier to NOT bend it right with the "through the head" center.

What do ya'll think?

Too complicated for me, Brian.

I'll just keep doing what Homer told me to do:

"Keep your Head still, pick it up with your Right Forearm and slam it as hard as you want."

[brianmanzella]

Great answer, Lynn.

Simple is always better.

If you do not want to respond to the strengths and weaknessness of these two perfectly 1-L compliant procedures, I completely understand.

But, maybe some of the others will comment.

Is it a 100-0 victory for one method oevr the other? or is there possible advantages to one over the other.

Let's keep this on topic, if possible.

[Yoda]

Great answer, Lynn.

Simple is always better.

If you do not want to respond to the strengths and weaknessness of these two perfectly 1-L compliant procedures, I completely understand.

But, maybe some of the others will comment.

Is it a 100-0 victory for one method over the other? or is there possible advantages to one over the other.

Let's keep this on topic, if possible.

For all but the most adroit, we are into the specious argument of 'how many angels can dance on the head of a pin."

www.bartleby.com/59/4/howmanyangel.html

Keep your Head steady.

It is the First Essential of The Golfing Machine®.

Or, assuming you can tell a difference, keep the 'base of your neck' steady.

Your Body is a Rotor. Your Arms and Club are the Blades. No matter how it is driven, the Left Arm and Club always moves in a circle.

Do what Vardon, Jones, Palmer and Nicklaus were told to do:

"Stand still, and as you take the Club away, let your Body Turn, not Sway."

If you do that, you've got a chance to play this Game well.

If you don't, you better bring a lot of talent and a ton of time to the table.

Because you're doing it the hard way.

[brianmanzella]

Another great answer, Lynn!

But, in case anyone else would like to answer, here is a couple of points to consider about my answer:

If you use the "through the head" pivot center, your swing center—the left shoulder—travels—in a shorter arc on the backstroke.

Also, if you use the "through the head" pivot center, the possiblity for a circle delivery path, becomes far greater than the "base of the neck center."

But, the "through the head" picot center nearly assures the better player that the shoulder turn won't be too flat.

As far as the angles on the pin, I choose to only comment on the thesis of this thread: Is one PERFECTLY still pivot center, TECHNICALLY superior to the other...

...and why?

[brianmanzella]

Inexorably, the adroit betwixt our midst, shall endeavor to formulate a response.

[Mathew]

Ch-6 Golf My Way - "Golf's One Unarguable, Universal Fundamental"

I regard keeping the head very steady, if not absolutely stock still throughout the swing as the bedrock fundamental of golf. It is inviolable as far as I'm concerned.

Who wrote this - only the greatest player that ever played the game ! The winner of 18 Majors !

The next time you are looking for something to watch on the practice tee at a PGA tour event, study the players' heads as they swing. You'll see a few that swivel - mine included. But I'd be very surprised if you see many that move up, down, or from side to side.

Hitting the ball as hard as I do, I know I couldn't break 80 if I were unable to keep my head in one place throughout the swing

Swaying is a cheap way to get the club back and up without turning and coiling the torso; without really stretching and working the back and leg muscles.

He's only the greatest player that ever lived....

[brianmanzella]

Wonderful response Mathew!

I was looking for something a bit more—how do you say—geometric or scientific, than Jack Nicklaus quotes.

But, I LOVE Jack Nicklaus, so should I start listening to all his advice in all 10 of his instruction books?

I thought maybe, Mathew, that you couyld draw one of those little illustrations of yours that will show the superiority of one of the "pivot center" methods.

[12 piece bucket]

Here is my OPINION:

I think creating and sustaining lag pressue is easier with the base of the neck.

I think staying or getting 'on top' (or behind, if you prefer) of the sweetspot with your #3 pressure point—as in Horizontal Hinging—is easier with the base of the neck.

I think performing ANGLED hinge action or vertical hinge action to be easier with the "through the head" center.

If you bend you plane line too much to the left as a rule, you will find it easier to NOT bend it left with the "base of the neck" center.

If you bend the plane line to the right as a rule, , you will find it easier to NOT bend it right with the "through the head" center.

What do ya'll think?

B,

I have no beef with you. But I think you have this debate thing a bit backwards.

No offense meant here but it seems to me that the burden of proof would be in your court. In your above post you have said "in my opinion" and "I think." You are debating in your AWAY jersey. The book has defined the Stationary Post in 1-L and also the stationary head in 2-0. Mr. Kelley provided his supporting evidence. Seems to me for a true debate you would need to provide your evidence as to the above, not Mathew.

Mr. Kelley has given support for his theory. If you think the base of the neck offers better compression in some instances, we need your science. Please don't call that Mandrin dork though

Best regards,

B

[Mathew]

When you later said in regards to the great pictures Martee made.

This is the first post

The picture are not in a 'sequence,' so what?

Actually this is absolutely incorrect! They are a sequence and now I fixed the frames 'in photoshop' after being scanned badly, we can see quite clearly that they are a match just how far off this line is...