Shoulder(s) In Relation To Plane...

[comdpa]

Nevermind, this should answer your question more clearly...

In the Preface of the 7th Edition:

"The "Uncompensated Stroke" is recommended simply because - for instance per 7-13 - if you cannot take the Shoulder down the Clubshaft Plane you must take it along some other path and add compensations - now, instead of one motion to remember, you wind up with at least two."

What did Mr. Kelly have to say about compensations?

Per 6-F-2 " Compensations are like temporary taxes - seldom eliminated and soon forgotten."

thanks compda

I might try a pm to Yoda for the other questions. I never seem to get anywhere on this topic

If you ever see an image showing the rear shoulder, forearm and clubshaft all on the same plane, during a normal golf shot and without a straight rear arm, please let me know . Push Elbow doesn't count

[comdpa]

Thanks so much for posting Phimaynard and, for illuminating Comdpa--I can feel a little fog lift with each post.

You are most welcome and the pleasure is always mine...

[comdpa]

Per the Glossary

Axis Tilt: "To change the plane of the Shoulder Turn without moving the Head, the golfer must tilt the Shoulder Axis by moving the Hips."

[Yoda]

Okay, "Down" I get. Its the opposite of up. "Forward" I get--towards the target line. But "Out" cooks my noodle a bit. Out to which direction? Many thanks for any light you care to shed.

Out is toward the Plane Line.

[nevermind]

I have read that the uncompensated, maximum support, stroke includes having the trail shoulder and forearm on the same plane as the shaft at impact, the Turned Shoulder Plane. Only, I can't see how that is possible without having a straight trail arm. Unless you only need the bottom edge of the shoulder to sit on the plane for it to be considered on the Turned Shoulder Plane, maybe that is the answer... From all the pics I've seen where the shaft is on the Turned Shoulder Plane at impact, either the trail shoulder or forearm are not on the TSP.

Comdpa, you've said that the trail shoulder should remain on plane in the Downstroke as long as it needs to. What are the determining factors?

[comdpa]

Comdpa, you've said that the trail shoulder should remain on plane in the Downstroke as long as it needs to. What are the determining factors?

Please answer this...

How long should the clubshaft remain on plane?

That will answer your question...

[nevermind]

Easy, as far as it needs to! Seriously though, until the end of the Follow-Through? Even if that is correct , I'm still confused

Despite comdpa's valiant attempts, I haven't travelled very far since the beginning of this thread. I'll try to list the questions that I'm stuck on.

1. When does a golfer have a preselected Downstroke Clubshaft Plane, and when don't they?

2. If you shift the clubshaft from plane A to plane B during the Downstroke, which is the preselected Downstroke Clubshaft Plane? Or is there no preselected Downstroke Clubshaft Plane where the clubshaft shifts in the Downstroke.

3. Is the trail shoulder on the Turned shoulder plane at the end of the Backstroke, no matter what type of shoulder turn took place?

4. To be "on" a plane angle, should the shoulder be resting on top of the plane or be bisected by it?

5. If you shift the clubshaft from plane A(Turned Shoulder Plane) to plane B during Downstroke, if possible, should you also shift the trail shoulder from A to B? In most cases that would be shifting down to the elbow or clubshaft plane, the trail shoulder cannot get down to either, can it?

6. How far into the Downstroke does the trail shoulder need to remain on plane, so that leaving it does not cause problems? Like with the hip slide, I guess the answer is "far enough so that X happens, or doesn't happen"

7. Does the above answer vary from pattern to pattern? Why?

8. Is it safe to say that in 99% of cases the trail shoulder should work down the Turned Shoulder Plane?

9. The book says, maybe indirectly, that having both the trail forearm on the same plane as the clubshaft, and the trail shoulder on the same plane as the hands, provides maximum support and is optimal, doesn't it? If yes, how can you have the trail shoulder, trail forearm and clubshaft (and therefore the hands) all on the Turned Shoulder Plane(assuming the answer to Q.5 is "no") at impact, without having a trail arm that is straight or very close to straight? An image would be great.

10. I have a feeling that when the golfer has the clubshaft on the Turned Shoulder Plane in the Downstroke, they are likely to move the trail shoulder off plane earlier than someone with the clubshaft on a flatter plane. Is there any link at all or am I way off base?

Any answers, from anyone, would be very much appreciated. (no smilies left.. the 4 smilie/image per post limit is very annoying [grrr])

[HoganFan]

Out is toward the Plane Line.

Every bit of info helps unravel the knot...