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The Finish Swivel

The Golfing Machine - Basic

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Old 05-02-2006, 02:28 PM
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Yoda Yoda is offline
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The True Geometrically-Carved Divot
Originally Posted by sdsurfmore

my divots are inside to out...
Divots indeed are taken 'Down and Out' (1-L #14), but they should not point to the right of the Target. If they do, then you have executed a Closed Plane Line (10-5-E) and, depending on Clubface alignment, the Ball Flight (both initial Direction and Path) will be subject to any number of vagaries.

Remember, you are at the bottom of a circle (Clubhead Orbit) with a radius (Left Arm and Club) some five feet in length. Accordingly, there is not a lot of 'Down' and not a lot of 'Out' left. And some of that Divot is the Club exiting the ground after Low Point and now traveling 'Up and In'. So, while the 'Outward' dimension of Impact is still present and extremely necessary to achieve, it is not enough to send the Divot out to the right.

The goal is a Three-Dimensional Impact -- Downward, Outward and Forward -- and an On Line Divot.
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Old 05-02-2006, 02:35 PM
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tongzilla tongzilla is offline
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On Line Divots
Originally Posted by Yoda
Divots indeed are taken 'Down and Out' (1-L #14), but they should not point to the right of the Target. If they do, then you have executed a Closed Plane Line (10-5-E) and, depending on Clubface alignment, the Ball Flight (both initial Direction and Path) will be subject to any number of vagaries.

Remember, you are at the bottom of a circle (Clubhead Orbit) with a Radius (Left Arm and Club) of some five feet. Accordingly, there is not a lot of 'Down' and not a lot of 'Out' left. And some of that Divot is the Club exiting the ground after Low Point and now traveling 'Up and In'. So, while the 'Outward' dimension of Impact is still present and extremely necessary to achieve, it is not enough to send the Divot out to the right.

The goal is a Three-Dimensional Impact -- Downward, Outward and Forward -- and an On Line Divot.
You can spend years "digging it out of the dirt" to learn about this invaluble information.

Or you can hang out at LBG.

The choice is obvious .
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Old 05-02-2006, 03:12 PM
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metallion metallion is offline
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And there it goes
Originally Posted by Yoda
Divots indeed are taken 'Down and Out' (1-L #14), but they should not point to the right of the Target. If they do, then you have executed a Closed Plane Line (10-5-E) and, depending on Clubface alignment, the Ball Flight (both initial Direction and Path) will be subject to any number of vagaries.

Remember, you are at the bottom of a circle (Clubhead Orbit) with a radius (Left Arm and Club) some five feet in length. Accordingly, there is not a lot of 'Down' and not a lot of 'Out' left. And some of that Divot is the Club exiting the ground after Low Point and now traveling 'Up and In'. So, while the 'Outward' dimension of Impact is still present and extremely necessary to achieve, it is not enough to send the Divot out to the right.

The goal is a Three-Dimensional Impact -- Downward, Outward and Forward -- and an On Line Divot.
Great stuff. How about wrapping up by discussing in which direction the slab of grass (or piece of cartpath) should be flying - relative to the target line and/or the initial ball direction? Or did you just say that? On Line Divot
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Old 05-08-2006, 11:22 PM
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Michael Finney Michael Finney is offline
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Mathew, maybe you should watch Ben hit balls in person...then maybe you can comment upon his clubface control.......
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Old 05-08-2006, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Finney
Mathew, maybe you should watch Ben hit balls in person...then maybe you can comment upon his clubface control.......
There have been great players throughout history doing things that aren't correct and just because they were great doesn't mean its right. Just because one does well using inferior alignments doesn't mean it is the simpliest way. That is why I love the golfing machine. I know he hits the ball well but it doesn't change that fact.

We're talking about the advancement of a sport, to keep on inspiring, to improve and to make the next generation play better. Do you not see what Homers vision was about and why he spent 40+ years working out the simpliest way to do things. I couldn't care less what Ben does, Tiger Woods does or any tour player for that matter - its about the simplicity of a machine and it is that which is going to advance the next generation of golfers.

Last edited by Mathew : 05-08-2006 at 11:47 PM.
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Old 05-09-2006, 12:00 AM
Vandal Vandal is offline
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Skeptics never let dogma dictate knowledge and learning, and skeptics always question those who claim that they have THE truth. Skeptics challenge, prod, poke, inquire and strive. So, yes, I am a skeptic. Always.
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Old 05-09-2006, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Vandal
Skeptics never let dogma dictate knowledge and learning, and skeptics always question those who claim that they have THE truth. Skeptics challenge, prod, poke, inquire and strive. So, yes, I am a skeptic. Always.
I used to be a skeptic when I was younger. Now I just want to have fun. I gave up challenging, prodding and poking, for distance, accuracy and trajectory. But hey, I'm glad that someone is following in my old footsteps. Long live the 60's.
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Old 05-09-2006, 01:40 AM
Tom Bartlett Tom Bartlett is offline
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Originally Posted by Mathew
There have been great players throughout history doing things that aren't correct and just because they were great doesn't mean its right.
Yes it does! Just because a swing doesn't look like Ben Hogans doesn't mean it's wrong (I know you didn't say Ben Hogan) but that is what is implied.

That's the whole point and beauty of Homer Kelley's golfing machine, there are a zillion (I know it's not a zillion) different ways to 'Do It'. And, the most ideal way might not be possible for some (for whatever reason be it physical or mental) so they find another.
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Old 05-09-2006, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Bartlett
Yes it does! Just because a swing doesn't look like Ben Hogans doesn't mean it's wrong (I know you didn't say Ben Hogan) but that is what is implied.

That's the whole point and beauty of Homer Kelley's golfing machine, there are a zillion (I know it's not a zillion) different ways to 'Do It'. And, the most ideal way might not be possible for some (for whatever reason be it physical or mental) so they find another.
Read it, how can you not see it! There is a mechanical model underlying the whole entire book! You have to conform to the principles and alignments of the machine to have a precision stroke, conforming to the exact same principles you use in daily life and mechanical alignments you must adhere to if you want to be that efficient ballstriking machine. The book is written so that a player can have options in the various ways you can adjust it without compensations. A compensation is something that causes a disadvantage without any advantages in return or that any advantage is so overly outweighed it ceases to be one. If the impact interval is preformed as a swivel, it is a compensation. On a shot by shot basis 'the results' may even seem to be very similiar when expertly executed but every once in a while it will catch up with you and the price will be paid. Remember it is our role to give the Tiger Woods of tommorow the means and information so that he has an edge to enable him to break the records of Tiger Woods today inorder to keep inspiring the whole next generation of players that will play this game and not just merely copy the masters of old. Your stuck in the past learning the faults of your elders, and (until the next generation produces something even better) the golfing machine is advancing the future! Homer Kelley worked it out, he saw it, he understood it and the book is a proof to those that understand it!

Last edited by Mathew : 05-09-2006 at 03:39 AM.
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Old 05-09-2006, 12:49 PM
Tom Bartlett Tom Bartlett is offline
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Originally Posted by Mathew
Read it, how can you not see it! There is a mechanical model underlying the whole entire book! You have to conform to the principles and alignments of the machine to have a precision stroke, conforming to the exact same principles you use in daily life and mechanical alignments you must adhere to if you want to be that efficient ballstriking machine. The book is written so that a player can have options in the various ways you can adjust it without compensations. A compensation is something that causes a disadvantage without any advantages in return or that any advantage is so overly outweighed it ceases to be one. If the impact interval is preformed as a swivel, it is a compensation. On a shot by shot basis 'the results' may even seem to be very similiar when expertly executed but every once in a while it will catch up with you and the price will be paid. Remember it is our role to give the Tiger Woods of tommorow the means and information so that he has an edge to enable him to break the records of Tiger Woods today inorder to keep inspiring the whole next generation of players that will play this game and not just merely copy the masters of old. Your stuck in the past learning the faults of your elders, and (until the next generation produces something even better) the golfing machine is advancing the future! Homer Kelley worked it out, he saw it, he understood it and the book is a proof to those that understand it!
Thank you, Mathew, for your contribution.
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