I agree with regard to the direction the right elbow will pointing. I personnally believe that this is one way to identify a golfer's intent, be it swinging or hitting, however with amateurs this can be quite misleading due to the mixing of components.
I would ask a question.
When I was with Yoda, we did a drill using paddles. The drill for swinging was at start up to rotate the right palm to the plane angle by time your club first became parallel to the ground and then continue on up. For a hitter the motion was different in that the palm didn't reach this alignment till it was at the top. Is this the swivel you are referencing?
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Is Swivel being used here as synonymous with TURN? There is a TURN and ROLL. Swivel is usually used as a DOWNSWING term.
Here is my opinion on this topic. I think for each golfer, there is only one "natural" elbow position that will have the Clubshaft On Plane at the top. So, if you keep everything else the same, mostly importantly the impact fix amount of right wrist bend, whilst keeping the Clubshaft On Plane (i.e. pointing at the Plane Line), you should only get one right elbow location. And to me, that's the elbow location you should have regardless of whether you're a Hitter or Swinger. The Plane is "da boss".
Turning and Rolling is via the Swiveling of the Standard Wrist Action..
Until Hinge Action and Wrist Action is completely understood rather than a "known familiarity"..Golf is an enigma!!!
Hmm?
2-G. HINGE MOTION
The Physics of Hinging is, that, Hitting or Swinging, it is actually imparted by the turning torso and/or the orbiting arms, per 2-K and 2-K#4/#5, as described in 10-18.
I have witnessed the one and only Yoda Hit and swing. The two procedures don't look the same. It was hardly perceptible that he loaded the #3 pressure point differently for each procedure. He may have only needed a fraction of a difference in elbow location to develop the difference in load direction. He is just too damn well trained.
You can load directly against the Primary Lever Assembly without having your right elbow flare out behind you. If it is flared out behind at the Top, then you may not have the elbow On-Plane for impact. After Start-down is when the pushing (I think) through #1PP begins (for Hitting) but the right elbow needs to be On-Plane for the right forearm to be On-Plane.
I'm not a Hitter. I'm still learning to Swing. I may have to caddie.
Orbiting Arms is around the axis of rotation of the left shoulder or Hinge Pin and abduction/adduction/internal and external rotation at the shoulder....Swiveling is independent rotation of the lower arm ...the axis of rotation at the elbow...a radial/ulnar movement
Orbiting Arms is around the axis of rotation of the left shoulder or Hinge Pin and abduction/adduction/internal and external rotation at the shoulder....Swiveling is independent rotation of the lower arm ...the axis of rotation at the elbow...a radial/ulnar movement
Who are you and what have you done with annikan skywalker?
Not exactly. The left shoulder is the center of rotation of the left arm only. The stationary head, is the center of the swing (can act as though it's the center). In non-pivot strokes you are correct, the hinge pin is located at the left shoulder, however in Pivot Strokes, The Turning Torso, around its center (Head) is the location of the hinge pin. The left arm and shoulders travel through the Impact Interval together as though welded together (if for only briefly). Then the path of this structure can be Horizontal-closing only, vertical- layed back only or Angled-closing and laying back. The path is dictated from educated hands. That is why Homer Kelley said that holding the left wrist vertical to one of the basic planes will impart that same action to the hinge. (I could have said that better)
The swivel in a full Pivot stoke, should, as especially seen in the follow-through swivel, be a rotation of the arms and not just the forearms below the elbows. Using one of the Edz drills, cup your hands in front of you and entwine the fingers of each hand together. Now, swing them back and forth using your shoulder turn to move your arms (keep your arms in front of your torso) and you'll see the full arm rotation of a swivel. A swivel is the full arm rotation about/around/within the torso rotation (Pivot). Arm rotation in the hinge is imparted by shoulder rotation (I Could have said that better too).
If I was to get into the Arnold Palmer Putting Posture (APPP), then my elbows would be tight against my sides and swivel would only be from the elbows down (non-pivot stroke).
One more point. The bending and unbending of the elbow (right elbow) permits the roll swivel and the turn swivel. The bending left elbow in the follow through permits the follow through swivel. Fanning motion of the right forearm at takeaway is because the whole right arm is rotating. If the whole right arm did not rotate, you would have Right hand Turn, but no fanning. That could Uncock the Right Wrist and effect the Right Forearm Flying Wedge.
PS. I've seen pics of your swing posted on other threads. I don't know what you are feeling, but it looks like you're doing it perfectly. Very impressive motion.
Who are you and what have you done with annikan skywalker?
Not exactly. The left shoulder is the center of rotation of the left arm only. The stationary head, is the center of the swing (can act as though it's the center). In non-pivot strokes you are correct, the hinge pin is located at the left shoulder, however in Pivot Strokes, The Turning Torso, around its center (Head) is the location of the hinge pin. The left arm and shoulders travel through the Impact Interval together as though welded together (if for only briefly). Then the path of this structure can be Horizontal-closing only, vertical- layed back only or Angled-closing and laying back. The path is dictated from educated hands. That is why Homer Kelley said that holding the left wrist vertical to one of the basic planes will impart that same action to the hinge. (I could have said that better)
The swivel in a full Pivot stoke, should, as especially seen in the follow-through swivel, be a rotation of the arms and not just the forearms below the elbows. Using one of the Edz drills, cup your hands in front of you and entwine the fingers of each hand together. Now, swing them back and forth using your shoulder turn to move your arms (keep your arms in front of your torso) and you'll see the full arm rotation of a swivel. A swivel is the full arm rotation about/around/within the torso rotation (Pivot). Arm rotation in the hinge is imparted by shoulder rotation (I Could have said that better too).
If I was to get into the Arnold Palmer Putting Posture (APPP), then my elbows would be tight against my sides and swivel would only be from the elbows down (non-pivot stroke).
One more point. The bending and unbending of the elbow (right elbow) permits the roll swivel and the turn swivel. The bending left elbow in the follow through permits the follow through swivel. Fanning motion of the right forearm at takeaway is because the whole right arm is rotating. If the whole right arm did not rotate, you would have Right hand Turn, but no fanning. That could Uncock the Right Wrist and effect the Right Forearm Flying Wedge.
PS. I've seen pics of your swing posted on other threads. I don't know what you are feeling, but it looks like you're doing it perfectly. Very impressive motion.
Check this out... Swivel? Notice the little pins..one is fixed at the shoulder at in ...the other is rotating...?????
Thanks for the compliment on my swing...feels aligned!!!!
[quote=annikan skywalker]Check this out... Swivel? Notice the little pins..one is fixed at the shoulder at in ...the other is rotating...?????
This sketch is confusing (to me anyhow). 2K-4 shows a left arm in a plank type of representation with the club in the same rectangle shape. In 2K-5 the club has rolled up to vertical however the left are appears not to have changed (swiveled) it just shows the wrist hinge pin in different place with the rectangle intact. Is this a poor sketch or am I missing something.
If a sketch were made of the in-between picture, could the club and left arm (below swivel) be shown rolled up to 45 to 2K-4? Would a clockwise circular arrow make it a bit more clear?
Hybrid Mode
