Was Homer Wrong?

[Mathew]

Ok, and the centrifugal force acts on?

The right arm and flying wedge driving the secondary lever assembly and its onplane relationship with the axis of rotation - right shoulder... why do I have to repeat myself....

I missed the straw man argument, but don't mince words. You intended to either be unkind or show your superiority. Either way it is a personal attack.

No I mean't it as an arguement is absurd....thats your interpretation....

...and in the context of swinging a golf club that requires?

Propelling is a very well known and understood word. It involves application of force, and the rate of application of force is power. Centrifugal force does not power anything, let alone the golf swing. Either directly or indirectly, Homer said that centrifugal force causes the throw out effect. This is wrong.

propel

verb

1. To set or keep going: actuate, drive, impel, mobilize, move, run. See move/halt.
2. To launch with great force: fire, hurtle, loose, project, shoot. Idioms: let fly. See move/halt.
3. To force to move or advance with or as if with blows or pressure: drive, push, ram, shove, thrust. See move/halt.
4. To stir to action or feeling: egg on, excite, foment, galvanize, goad, impel, incite, inflame, inspire, instigate, motivate, move, pique, prick, prod, prompt, provoke, set off, spur, stimulate, touch off, trigger, work up. See cause/effect, excite/bore/interest.

Congrats you've figured out that centrifugal force doesn't power anything and it is an effect we deal with - now tell me where Homer says "centrifugal powered swing"... The throw-out action is an action of the right arm which is kept onplane by the right shoulder turning the axis to spin the flywheel - centrifugal force propelling/moving/advancing/launch the secondary lever assembly/right flying wedge/right arm acc#1 into impact just like that string on the drum except it is checkreined against the left arm.... "Drum technique. Understand?"

So explain the misunderstandings. I've explained how Homer either misunderstood or deliberately misrepresented centrifugal force. I've explained the misunderstanding of the string example. I've explained the common misunderstanding of the endless belt. Go for it! Tell me where I'm wrong. I can assure you though, that TGM vernacular are not at all essential to understanding centrifugal force. Alternatively show me something from the TGM book which shows that Homer really did get it right about centrifugal force.

No, its your job to understand... I should be able to communicate this way with you. Just like a physicist needs to understand Einstein or X physicists theories before trying to disprove ... The onus is on you.....

[Mathew]

"Drum technique. Understand?"

[golf_sceptic]

No I mean't it as an arguement is absurd....thats your interpretation....

Sorry, but that reads as though you left a few words or some punctuation out. If I've misconstrued your two one liners and they were not meant to be personal attacks or demeaning, then that's fine. Others will form their own views of your "Perhaps you think the strings are pulling the hands - if you do your intellect is rivaled only by that of garden tools" proposition.

The right arm and flying wedge driving the secondary lever assembly and its onplane relationship with the axis of rotation - right shoulder... why do I have to repeat myself....

This time it is because you chose to answer a question which wasn't asked.

Here's the thread...

You wrote: Relative to the object - the turning axis is the work involved to create the centripetal force - the string becomes taut - centrifugal force

I wrote: Ok, and the centrifugal force acts on?

You wrote what I quoted above beginning with "The right arm ...".
So, let's take a step back to what you wrote:
"the string becomes taut - centrifugal force"

What does the centrifugal force act on?

You are right that you can write responses in any form you choose. I reject your claimed sovereignty over what my duties are and where any onus lies unless of course it is part of the terms and conditions of this web site.

[golf_sceptic]

Before this discussion deteriorates any further.

In response to my comment about centrifugal force Yoda wrote:

Nevertheless, the concept as he defined it in the Glossary -- "The effort of the Swinging Clubhead to pull the Primary Lever Assembly (Left Arm and Club) into a straight line" -- is the essence of the Physics of Rotation. As any kid who has ever whirled a rock on a string could tell us.

Unless I am very much mistaken, yoda was suggesting that centrifugal force is responsible for both the "pull" on the primary lever, and the tension in the kid's string.

As a result, I explained the forces involved in the kid and the rock example

In the rock on the string example the rock is affected by only one force. That is centripetal force and it is what causes the rock to follow a circular path.

As a result of the string pulling on the rock, the rock pulls on the string with an equal and opposite force. That is the centrifugal force.

Going further, the boy pulls on the string (centripetal) and the string pulls on the boy (centrifugal).

To balance the pull from the string, the boy leans back ever so slightly and uses gravity to balance himself.

If we can get past this point, I'd like to discuss the validity of the other part of yoda's quote from a physics point of view. The point I'd like to stress is that the centrifugal force does exist, but affects the kid (via the string) and not the stone. Does anybody need further clarification of the kid and the rock?

[Yoda]

To better serve the purposes of all concerned, I am moving this entire thread to The Lab. See you there!

[Yoda]

Going further, the boy pulls on the string (centripetal) and the string pulls on the boy (centrifugal).

Actually, the boy pulls on the rock (centripetal force) and the rock pulls on the boy (centrifugal force). The string is the medium through which these equilibrants do battle.

[golf_sceptic]

Thanks for replying yoda.

Ok. There's a hair which may need to be split depending on whether the string's mass can be ignored, but so far so good.

Are we agreed that centrifugal force does affect the boy but in no way affects the rock?

Sorry I fixed a typo there. The original said "any" where it now says "no".

[strav]

Actually, the boy pulls on the rock (centripetal force) and the rock pulls on the boy (centrifugal force). The string is the medium through which these equilibrants do battle.

Thanks for replying yoda.

Ok. There's a hair which may need to be split depending on whether the string's mass can be ignored, but so far so good.

Are we agreed that centrifugal force does affect the boy but in any way affects the rock?

While we are hair splitting - are they both equilbrants or is one a resultant?

[Yoda]

Are we agreed that centrifugal force does affect the boy but in any way affects the rock?

Actually, the rock is simply trying to move in a straight line. The centripetal string prevents it from doing so, and the apparent force -- from the rock's point of view -- is centrifugal.

[drewitgolf]

1-H (last paragraph) "As a term is specifically defined herein, that is the basic connotation which is always a dictionary definition but not necessarily that of Physics, Electrical, etc. The dictionary is generally considered a standard of precision. Scientific terms in quotes denote a loose application with obvious intent, because no better term seems available. Measurements given herein are for the golf course rather than the laboratory, but the laboratory will show them within acceptable tolerances. Clarity and usefulness are the only motive."

At the time of Homer Kelley's death in 1983, Merriam-Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary defined the following:

centrifugal force n: the force that tends to impel a thing or parts of a thing outward from the center of rotation