DG,
I must humble myself....I stand corrected about trigger combinations in Chapter 11
2nd and 3rd Editions Trigger Release
Combo Type
A - Hand Throw B/C A
B - Right Arm Throw All B/C/F
C - Shoulder Turn Throw A/B B/C/F
D - Delivery Path Throw B/E D/E
E - Wrist Throw B/D D/E/F
Major changes with 4th edition - 1979
A - Hand Throw B/C A
B - Right Arm Throw A/D B/C
C - Shoulder Turn Throw E B/C
D - Delivery Path Throw B D/E
E - Wrist Throw C D/E/F
2nd Edition 10-20-B
This procedure has wide application where right arm power is employed. It is simply the Right Arm PUSHING the Left Arm away from the chest (in addition to any extensor effort) and can be introduced at any point in the downstroke - deliberately or automatically. For the automatic application IT MUST BE COMBINED WITH TYPES C,D AND/OR E.
3rd Edition 10-20-E
By delaying the roll of the wrists until the end of the Delivery Path Line, regardless of other Power Package actions, will produce a very fine Automatic Snap Release _ especiallly when COMBINED WITH TRIGGER TYPES B AND/OR D. See also 6-B-3-C.
Sorry, about the mistake I read the wrong edition. Again. After reading the posts on right arm swinging... I guess I'm out of my league... I'll try to say less to gain more!!! I'll sit back for now...observe and listen...incubate....until the mystery of right arm participation is solved.
DG,
I must humble myself....I stand corrected about trigger combinations in Chapter 11
2nd and 3rd Editions Trigger Release
Combo Type
A - Hand Throw B/C A
B - Right Arm Throw All B/C/F
C - Shoulder Turn Throw A/B B/C/F
D - Delivery Path Throw B/E D/E
E - Wrist Throw B/D D/E/F
Major changes with 4th edition - 1979
A - Hand Throw B/C A
B - Right Arm Throw A/D B/C
C - Shoulder Turn Throw E B/C
D - Delivery Path Throw B D/E
E - Wrist Throw C D/E/F
2nd Edition 10-20-B
This procedure has wide application where right arm power is employed. It is simply the Right Arm PUSHING the Left Arm away from the chest (in addition to any extensor effort) and can be introduced at any point in the downstroke - deliberately or automatically. For the automatic application IT MUST BE COMBINED WITH TYPES C,D AND/OR E.
3rd Edition 10-20-E
By delaying the roll of the wrists until the end of the Delivery Path Line, regardless of other Power Package actions, will produce a very fine Automatic Snap Release _ especiallly when COMBINED WITH TRIGGER TYPES B AND/OR D. See also 6-B-3-C.
Sorry, about the mistake I read the wrong edition. Again. After reading the posts on right arm swinging... I guess I'm out of my league... I'll try to say less to gain more!!! I'll sit back for now...observe and listen...incubate....until the mystery of right arm participation is solved.
DG.
For some reason the format I typed in on trigger types did not come out right when the post was submitted...Please click on edit to see correct typing format!
Sincerely, Annikan
As Ben Doyle once said, "It isn't this hard!" I've watched the Tomasello tape kindly provided by DG and read most, if not all, of the discussions concerning Right Arm Swinging. I believe what Tom shows is not a RAS at all, but rather a version of a Left Arm Swing, in which the Left Arm is inert, as he explicitly states. The Right Arm with simultaneous help from the turning left hip allows CF to uncock the Left Wrist via a Left Arm pull. It's still a Left Arm Stroke. Tom's Right Elbow position is not forward enough for the Right Arm to PULL, it can only push. To pull, the Right Elbow must be advanced well forward of the right hip. And to be a true RAS, the Right Elbow MUST replace the Left Shoulder as the swing center, which doesn't happen in Tom's stroke.
I have described my own version of the Right Arm Swing and it's stress on the Right Arm, but have been told that I'm not executing it correctly. Maybe someone can explain to me how you can pull the club through Impact with the Right Arm, without advancing the Right Elbow past the right hip before release.
Please continue posting on this topic. Some of the lost information, to many of us, may get uncovered. It makes no difference to me what the STROKE is CALLED... Right Arm Swinging, or Swinging that Involves Right Arm Particitation.
"The Bat"... is not what we are talking about here, but something considerably different.
I think you are very close. I think the Start Down (using Longitudinal Acceleration with the right arm) is one of the Keys to this Stroke.
I would like to see more on this. This is just another Stroke Variation, that some may want to employ, or understand. Most TGMers will probably always be BASIC PATTERN Swingers and/or Hitters.
Are you saying that the fanning motion of the Right Forearm can pull the clubshaft longitudinally even though the Right Elbow is not past the right hip at release, provided there is enough Right Wrist Bend?
Here are my two recent posts on right arm swinging...they still stand.
DG
Annikan,
Sound and visual quality of the Mudd video are not critical, the information is more important. Yes, Jodie's comments are coming from what Tomasello taught as swinging (right forearm startdown, right arm acceleration, but retaining the left shoulder as the swing arc). In the video of Tomasello, Tommy makes the comment....the right arm is not driving out like a true hitter’s right arm thrust. I believe what separates a true right arm swing versus a stroke that uses right arm acceleration and retains the left shoulder as the swing arc is the release type. Automatic release (no separately timed thrusting action at release, its one smooth driving motion from the start down) with right arm acceleration and the left shoulder as the swing arc is retained. With a non-automatic release, the swing arc will change with the focus on manually releasing the right elbow, so, the left shoulder for the non-automatic release is being "replaced by the Right Elbow". If you read 10-20-B which I believe Tomasello and Jodie Mudd are using as their trigger type in combination with 10-20-D....that component variation (10-20-B) makes an important point...."The Right Arm (6-B-1) simply pushes the Lever Assemblies (6-A) toward Impact with either early or late release. That comment is critical. My interpretation of that comment is...the early release is non-automatic (full sweep releases from different points in one's stroke, ideal for pitching and long chips)....the late release comment is for the automatic type...an automatic snap release, ideal for a full swing application. Ideally, the application for the true bat approach (right elbow arc) is in the short game (hence the name, minor basic strokes)....when the golfer can use what Ben Doyle calls a soft stroke where the release type is a full sweep release.
I still believe whether you retain the left shoulder as the swing arc or replace it with the right elbow, it's still right arm swinging (where acceleration is applied is key, first paragraph of 10-3-K and page 235, where Homer makes the comment, Accelerating the club longitudinally, with either arm, is swinging), the lower body is responding to the action of the right forearm and right triceps (Hey, Yoda, I mentioned the triceps for once, it feels weird)....the advanced golfer who understands the release types and their application will understand what I mean.
Thanks for your input...yeah, I would appreciate a copy of the tape...even if the dog has taken a bit out of it!!!
Yoda, thanks for putting up both the basic and advanced golfing machine sections, it's a much needed addition for the TGM forum format.
DG
Joe,
Tommy taught a right arm swing...release action, non-automatic or automatic release defines where the center of the swing arc is....automatic - left shoulder....non-automatic - right elbow (a true bat for the swinger using right arm acceleration with the emphasis of the right forearm action triggering the release of the right elbow), right arm swinging can utilize both swing centers (read the first paragraph of 1-F and the first sentence of the second paragraph), right arm swing is the only logical name to describe what Tomasello taught. Like I said...acceleration is the key, first paragraph of 10-3-K...the right arm swing is a derivative of 10-3-K, what I mean by that is...it takes the idea of right arm acceleration from 10-3-K from the first paragraph, that's where it ends.
The lower body responds to the action of the right forearm. Watch Tommy's video/DVD from the 50 minute mark to the 60 minute, listen for the comment, to paraphrase Tom "The left hip will respond to action of the right arm...going to a long right arm". After viewing that section go to the last 10 minutes of the video...with a 5-wood in hand, Tom makes the comment "One Smooth Motion"...in that comment, Tom is telling you how he is executing the right arm at the most advanced level with an automatic snap release generated by a driving right arm...no separate hitting action.
Joe...here is where the true confusion lies....Tommy did in fact teach a right arm swing, what he didn't teach is a true bat stroke...just the derivative of the bat, the right arm swing...for Tomasello it was the swinging procedure.....
That still doesn't answer my question - does the Right Arm actually pull the shaft longitudinally? If so, how can the Right Arm pull any way other than by thrusting the Right Elbow in front of the left hip? Tom does not do that, so how can his Right Elbow replace his Left Shoulder as the Swing Center, when it is so far back?
Here's the problem - if the Right Arm is extended by the Right Tricep, that movement uncocks the Left Wrist and so is not a Swing. The only way I can see the Right Arm pulling the shaft is by thrusting it in front of the right hip with that thrust providing the pull. The Right Tricep remains passive. The Right Arm gets extended by the subsequent pull of the club past separation. Any firing of the Right Tricep before separation will replace CF as the mechanism which is uncocking the Left Wrist.
Linear Mode
