Help...age, exercise, recovery and practice???

[psheehan]

Vicki and all you other smart folks out there... I am struggling with some issues. This may be a bit long winded but I need to post some background and then my problem.

I'm 59 (in Dec.)in good health (so the doctor says) and reasonably strong for my age; I'm 5'8" 178lbs. With the exception of years 23 to 35 when I was up to no good, I've worked out and played some competitive sports all my life. Until a disc problem I was powerlifting and considering doing it competively... the disc operation in 1997 ended squating and deadlifting, now all I do heavy is bench press. I retired at age 55 and found that heavy benching and practicing golf are difficult to blend. When I was a weekend player it didn't matter, I'd schedule Tues. as the heavy day and Sat. as a light day and I'd be fine. Now, I'm unable to swing without stiffness and occasional spasm after heavy days ... so I've cut that back a bit too. I workout 4 days a week with moderate weight, chest shoulders triceps twice a week and back legs and biceps twice a week...aerobic workouts forearm work and rotator cuff on all 4 days, aerobics consist of 20-30 minutes on a stair machine or a stationary bike. I cycle exercises and to a lesser degree weight about every 12 weeks.

Now my problem... In the last two years I've noticed that I seem to need more recovery time, but at the same time if I take a week off (which I used to do 3 or 4 times a year) I lose strength quickly. As an example, I took 10 days off prior to a tournament in Sept. 2 heavy workouts and 1 light workout...my guess is I lost 25-35lbs. off a max effort bench press as a result of that short layoff... worse than that, I was able to do 205lbs..9-10 times prior and on returning only 5 times with difficulty. Yet anytime I try to ramp up intensity I feel the signs of 'overtraining'...listless, tired, not wanting to work out etc. I brought up the general problem to the doctor about 7 or 8 months ago and he checked me from head to toe... the only thing he thought might be partially responsible was low free testosterone levels... but he said it was difficult to say since he didn't know where mine were 3-5 yrs. ago ...and since it didn't effect anything else he thought it made little sense taking testosterone since it might contribute to other health problems.

I seem to have some minor problems practicing also... I'm not able to hit as many balls without having fatigue set in, and maybe the bigger issue is the day after hitting 150 to 200 balls, I feel stiff and achy..that didn't happen when I first retired. I don't want to keep lowering my practice and workout regimes to accomodate aging...in fact, I am reluctant to give in at all. I thought workouts were supposed to keep me fit and younger longer... any thoughts out there?

[Bagger Lance]

Psheehan,

I don't have the disc issue you have, but I can relate to everything else. Age is not a friend for those of us comparing our current performance to our younger selves.

A few years ago when I started going back to the gym, I ramped and trained like I did 20 years earlier. Within 6 weeks, I was sick in bed from overtraining. My immune system was shot. I recovered and then 2 months later, sick again. Overtrained.
It is clear to me that as we age, we don't recover from training as quickly as we did in our youth. I focus just as hard on recovery as I do on the workouts. There are a couple of things that seems to help.

• Warm up slowly during the workout.
• Once warmed up, go at it with as much intensity as you can muster. Knock yourself out! There are days I can barely walk out of the gym. Now that I think about it, it's almost every day.
• Supplement the diet with the highest quality protein, carbohydrate, glutamine, creatine formula you can find. I take the supplement within an hour because muscle cells are most receptive to nutrient replacement within an hour of exercise and then again before bed.
• Eat high quality natural foods in reasonable portions throughout the day.
• Get into a good stretching routine and do it 4 or 5 times a week. Yoga may serve a dual purpose here. Stretch and reduce stress at the same time.
• Try to get the best quality of sleep you can get even if it means a natural sleep supplement.
• Drink as much water as you can get your hands on.
• Limit drinking adult beverages as the Liver has more important things to do. Plus it interferes with good quality sleep.
• Everyday stress also inhibits recovery thus contributing to the overtraining syndrome. Think about your lifestyle and find ways to reduce mental stress.
  

The soreness and stiffness is not necessarily lactic acid buildup although it does contribute. It is the mainly the damage to the muscle tissue brought about from the workout. Lactic Acid helps the muscles recover and rebuild. Personally, I allow each major body part a full two days to recover and that is a stretch. Meaning I do Bench or Squats every three days. As I monitor recovery, I'm finding it may take a bit longer. Every two months, I take a full week off from lifting and just do cardio or tennis or some other "fun" workout activity. Light cardio seems to help recovery as well. In terms of Testosterone, it decreases as we age and the only way to keep the levels up is through exercise. The more instense the exercise and specifically compound exercises, the higher the potential levels produced. Squats and Deadlifts are good for this, but you need to be sensitive to your spine. I'm not qualified to say whether or not you can do these with good form and not effect your disc. Since you have a powerlifting background, I'll take your word that these are not options. What about incline leg presses? These are compound and are good supplements for squats.

In terms of mixing strength training with golf, there are days when you will be sore and stiff. I have not found soreness to be a determent to my game. It's uncomfortable for sure, but it doesn't seem to interfere with the swing. But stiffness is a swing killer. Spasms signal to me that the muscles are recovering and not only need rest, but a nice stretch might help as well.

A few suggestions for Golf and Strength Training:

If you are a hitter, don’t do a heavy chest/tricep/back workout the day before playing. You won’t have the strength to get your normal distance and your timing may get thrown off.

If you are a swinger, don’t worry about the soreness, but do worry about the stiffness.

Make sure you spend 30 minutes to an hour prior to the round stretching everything. If you are riding in a cart, experiencing slow play, or playing in cold weather then stretch constantly throughout the round.

There isn't anything we can do about the effects of aging but as for me, I'm not going down that path without a fight!

[Yoda]

Thanks for your truly outstanding post, Bagger. Terriffic job.

[psheehan]

Bagger,
Thanks for sharing your experience. Except for Yoga and Glutamine (tried it and it didn't seem to do anything) I do pretty much everything you suggest....I'll admit to cutting some corners lately do to being plan tired... but other than that it seems like I'm doing all I can do. It is a tad sobering to think I'm just going down the toilet in ever decreasing spirals. I think if I stopped golf, I'd have enough energy to stay pretty strong... but that isn't happening. And then again, who knows how long THAT would last. I won't go without a fight.... but I'm losing this one right now.

[Bagger Lance]

The only reason I suggest Glutamine is that it helps muscle cells recover. I haven't "noticed" it's effect directly but I haven't gone cold turkey on it either.

I know the fatigue you are talking about. When I'm doing all the right things and I get it, there is usually something else contributing. Not saying that what's happening, but I would definitely examine stress sources. The human body is an amazing thing, but in terms of stress it has a hard time distinguishing the good kind from the bad kind. It tends to react by default to all stress being the bad kind. So exercise stress gets blended with all the other stress in our lives.

In terms of that downhill age thing...fergetaboutit

[lagster]

Vicki and all you other smart folks out there... I am struggling with some issues. This may be a bit long winded but I need to post some background and then my problem.

I'm 59 (in Dec.)in good health (so the doctor says) and reasonably strong for my age; I'm 5'8" 178lbs. With the exception of years 23 to 35 when I was up to no good, I've worked out and played some competitive sports all my life. Until a disc problem I was powerlifting and considering doing it competively... the disc operation in 1997 ended squating and deadlifting, now all I do heavy is bench press. I retired at age 55 and found that heavy benching and practicing golf are difficult to blend. When I was a weekend player it didn't matter, I'd schedule Tues. as the heavy day and Sat. as a light day and I'd be fine. Now, I'm unable to swing without stiffness and occasional spasm after heavy days ... so I've cut that back a bit too. I workout 4 days a week with moderate weight, chest shoulders triceps twice a week and back legs and biceps twice a week...aerobic workouts forearm work and rotator cuff on all 4 days, aerobics consist of 20-30 minutes on a stair machine or a stationary bike. I cycle exercises and to a lesser degree weight about every 12 weeks.

Now my problem... In the last two years I've noticed that I seem to need more recovery time, but at the same time if I take a week off (which I used to do 3 or 4 times a year) I lose strength quickly. As an example, I took 10 days off prior to a tournament in Sept. 2 heavy workouts and 1 light workout...my guess is I lost 25-35lbs. off a max effort bench press as a result of that short layoff... worse than that, I was able to do 205lbs..9-10 times prior and on returning only 5 times with difficulty. Yet anytime I try to ramp up intensity I feel the signs of 'overtraining'...listless, tired, not wanting to work out etc. I brought up the general problem to the doctor about 7 or 8 months ago and he checked me from head to toe... the only thing he thought might be partially responsible was low free testosterone levels... but he said it was difficult to say since he didn't know where mine were 3-5 yrs. ago ...and since it didn't effect anything else he thought it made little sense taking testosterone since it might contribute to other health problems.

I seem to have some minor problems practicing also... I'm not able to hit as many balls without having fatigue set in, and maybe the bigger issue is the day after hitting 150 to 200 balls, I feel stiff and achy..that didn't happen when I first retired. I don't want to keep lowering my practice and workout regimes to accomodate aging...in fact, I am reluctant to give in at all. I thought workouts were supposed to keep me fit and younger longer... any thoughts out there?

.................................................. .............

Good post Bagger!

Psheehan... It sounds like you are still very strong. I bet there are only a handful of tour players as strong as you are.

May be different now, but I heard Hank Haney say that Tiger benches 200lbs. for repetition.

Also heard from a former assistant at his club that he swims, sets up cones to run around, and works out on a regular basis(lifts).

I have a disc problem, so I know about that. I am able to do squats with light weights... about 40 to 50 lbs..

Strtetching helps me most of the time. I've also tried Yoga... seems to do something beneficial.

Aside... said he only saw Tiger using a video camera on the range one time.

[psheehan]

Lagster,
I am still pretty strong, and relative to friends my age I'm very strong. The problem is I see it slipping away...short layoffs have big effects and it takes quite awhile to get back what I lose. I've lost distance in the last few years (and given my strength I'm not very long) and I guess one of the most frustrating things of all is I'm starting to think this is as good as I'm going to get.... and that is gonna require a whole different approach to life in general....

[Bagger Lance]

Lagster,
I've lost distance in the last few years (and given my strength I'm not very long) and I guess one of the most frustrating things of all is I'm starting to think this is as good as I'm going to get...

Mr. P.

What kind of distance are we talking about?
I understand the recovery issue, but let's talk about golf for a minute.
Lynn is in the same age group and Vickie can probably affirm that he isn't doing the same kind of strength workouts you are.
Is the disc limiting distance?

[lagster]

Mr. P.

What kind of distance are we talking about?
I understand the recovery issue, but let's talk about golf for a minute.
Lynn is in the same age group and Vickie can probably affirm that he isn't doing the same kind of strength workouts you are.
Is the disc limiting distance?

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I think Bagger may be on to something with the disc. I think it is harder to push up out of the ground with the feet, with the disc problem. This is going to cost you some distance.

Also, strength, at least a certain kind of strength does not always equate to distance. The kind of strength that goes along with speed is the one that has to do with distance.

Tom Kite is a good example of a guy that is around your age, but is hitting the ball long, probably longer than when he won the U.S. Open(some due to technology). It would be interesting to find out what kind of workout he does.

[psheehan]

Bagger,
I'm probably 5 yds. shorter with my driver in carry distance over the last two years. Two years ago, a good solid hit would carry about 245...now it is probably 240... irons are probably down about 5 yds. too. The disk isn't the problem, I think some of it is speed... some of it is changing to hitting, adn some of it is getting too damn old, although that is better than the alternative. My index was between 1.2 and 3 in '04 with my fairly crummy swing... I went to see Ted in 2/05 and I switched to hitting and I've naturally had some issues making a big change. This year my index was 2.4 at the low (and that was March )and 4.9 now....but that isn't going to stay like that. I'm committed.. and I expect to do better in '06 I'm going to see Ted in a few weeks ago to work out some bumps..

Lagster,
If I had Kite's talent I wouldn't be complaining about getting old.