Angled Hinging flight tendency....same for Hitting AND Swinging???
I know that with HHinging positioning the ball forward means the face will close more....so you'll have more of a draw tendency (or at least the ball will fade LESS).
...
I know that Hitting WITH AN ANGLED HINGE will have a fade tendency with the ball forward and draw tend. with the ball back...
What about Swinging with an Angled Hinge?
Same deal?
Does the clubface continue to open until Low Point (l. shoulder) as it does with a Hitter?
I know that with HHinging positioning the ball forward means the face will close more....so you'll have more of a draw tendency (or at least the ball will fade LESS).
...
I know that Hitting WITH AN ANGLED HINGE will have a fade tendency with the ball forward and draw tend. with the ball back...
What about Swinging with an Angled Hinge?
Same deal?
Does the clubface continue to open until Low Point (l. shoulder) as it does with a Hitter?
Angle of Approach still?
Same deal. Clubface remains vertical to the Inclined Plane.
You don't have to use the Angle of Approach Delivery Line to execute Angled Hinging.
Now, how should the Swinger execute Angled Hinging? By adding a bit of Right Arm Thrust to override Centrifugal Force from producing the natural Horizontal Hinge Action? Or simply by being clever with the Hands (Educated Hands)? I say the latter.
The Left Wrist -- Not Right Arm Thrust -- Determines HInge Action
Originally Posted by tongzilla
Now, how should the Swinger execute Angled Hinging? By adding a bit of Right Arm Thrust to override Centrifugal Force from producing the natural Horizontal Hinge Action? Or simply by being clever with the Hands (Educated Hands)? I say the latter.
You are right, Tongzilla, Educated Hands are the key. Three quick points:
1. The Swinger who adds "a bit of Right Arm Thrust to override Centrifugal Force" is no longer a Swinger. He is a Hitter.
2. But remember, Right Arm Thrust is not the same thing as using the Right Arm to sense Clubhead Acceleration and Lag. And the Swinger should use his Acceleration-sensing Right Forearm and #3 Pressure Point to Trace the Plane Line through Impact.
3. In any event, the combination of Power Accumulators employed (Component #4) is totally independent of the Hinge Action (Component #10), Angled or otherwise.
You are right, Tongzilla, Educated Hands are the key. Three quick points:
1. The Swinger who adds "a bit of Right Arm Thrust to override Centrifugal Force" is no longer a Swinger. He is a Hitter.
2. But remember, Right Arm Thrust is not the same thing as using the Right Arm to sense Clubhead Acceleration and Lag. And the Swinger should use his Acceleration-sensing Right Forearm and #3 Pressure Point to Trace the Plane Line through Impact.
3. In any event, the combination of Power Accumulators employed (Component #4) is totally independent of the Hinge Action (Component #10), Angled or otherwise.
Let me be the first to step in the proverbial bucket of poop (I'm being nice).
Does this mean that the so called "four barrel swingers" are living in wonderland, and are closet hitters?
I have found in my hitting that the right arm has an impossible task in overriding centrifugal force. Centrifugal force can certainly override the right arm, so it must be stifled. This is why it's mandatory for a hitter to create a platform, from which the right arm can blast. Centrifugal force is like playing with fire for the hitter. It's nice to have it take up the initial momentum in Start Down, but you better know what you're doing (expert-4 barrel). It's like lighting up a fuse connected to a box of explosives. It might be exciting to light it, but you better cut the fuse before it gets there. The hitter that lets the fuse burn a little too long suffers the consequences.
6-F-0: "It is almost exclusively Muscular Force, totally annulling and stifling any intrusion by Centrifugal Force."
I know that with HHinging positioning the ball forward means the face will close more....so you'll have more of a draw tendency (or at least the ball will fade LESS).
...
I know that Hitting WITH AN ANGLED HINGE will have a fade tendency with the ball forward and draw tend. with the ball back...
What about Swinging with an Angled Hinge?
Same deal?
Does the clubface continue to open until Low Point (l. shoulder) as it does with a Hitter?
Angle of Approach still?
Jimmy- I mean birdie man! If there's people out there that really are keen on understanding the Golfing Machine- then without probably knowing it- you just started a 6+ page forum thread! Due to time constraints I'm not going to lead the way- but I'll jump in as needed. Simply put- the clubface with angled hinging IS closing until low point (and beyond) NOT opening. I'm sure you or others will be able to weed through the other related issues. Although, maybe I missed something here? Please correct me if you were saying something else.
Jimmy- I mean birdie man! If there's people out there that really are keen on understanding the Golfing Machine- then without probably knowing it- you just started a 6+ page forum thread! Due to time constraints I'm not going to lead the way- but I'll jump in as needed. Simply put- the clubface with angled hinging IS closing until low point (and beyond) NOT opening. I'm sure you or others will be able to weed through the other related issues. Although, maybe I missed something here? Please correct me if you were saying something else.
P.S. Is Canader anywhere near Canada?
I think Birdie_man is referring to the fact that the Clubface is opening relative to the Clubhead Line of Flight (or simply Clubhead Path).
lol I'm not even sure WHAT I'm referencing.....I just knew that the Hitter plays the ball more forward for a fade...so the face must be more open.
...
BTW....Canader is very close to Canada .
Yes, for fading the ball for hitting- you would start with your normal straight away ball flight- with you left wrist flat level and vertical- say clubface looking at the initial starting target- for simplicity of this example. Then if you want to fade, you would move the ball forward a certain amount, RETAKE your grip with the left wrist flat level and vertical - at the new ball location- with the clubface facing the initial starting target. If you want to hook the ball you would move it back from the straight away ball location- then RETAKE your grip with the clubface facing your the intitial target line, and the left wrist flat, level and vertical. Of course, other related adjustments would need to be made- but for this example it's important to clarify that for hitting or manipulated swinging- you are retaking the grip at the new ball location- not just moving the ball forward with the same grip.
Yes, for fading the ball for hitting- you would start with your normal straight away ball flight- with you left wrist flat level and vertical- say clubface looking at the initial starting target- for simplicity of this example. Then if you want to fade, you would move the ball forward a certain amount, RETAKE your grip with the left wrist flat level and vertical - at the new ball location- with the clubface facing the initial starting target. If you want to hook the ball you would move it back from the straight away ball location- then RETAKE your grip with the clubface facing your the intitial target line, and the left wrist flat, level and vertical. Of course, other related adjustments would need to be made- but for this example it's important to clarify that for hitting or manipulated swinging- you are retaking the grip at the new ball location- not just moving the ball forward with the same grip.
Why do think Homer recommended the above procedure to Swingers over the Plane Line rotation method?
Yes, for fading the ball for hitting- you would start with your normal straight away ball flight- with you left wrist flat level and vertical- say clubface looking at the initial starting target- for simplicity of this example. Then if you want to fade, you would move the ball forward a certain amount, RETAKE your grip with the left wrist flat level and vertical - at the new ball location- with the clubface facing the initial starting target. If you want to hook the ball you would move it back from the straight away ball location- then RETAKE your grip with the clubface facing your the intitial target line, and the left wrist flat, level and vertical. Of course, other related adjustments would need to be made- but for this example it's important to clarify that for hitting or manipulated swinging- you are retaking the grip at the new ball location- not just moving the ball forward with the same grip.
Here are some quotes from Lee Buck's Groove Your Swing My Way on this here very subject. Pretty interesting . . .
LEE BUCK ON AIMING THE CLUBFACE
"When it comes to aiming the clubface, I'm going to give you a real shocker. I'm sure you've all heard or read that you should aim the clubface down your initial flight path, or directly at your target, if you're going to make a straight shot.
If you're going to align yourself 30 to 40 degrees left of your flight path at address, you've also got to aim your clubface, and the back of your left hand, to the left."
WHY LEFT?
"If you aim your clubface to the left of your flight path, as I do, your wrist will not turn the clubface from right to left so radically through impact. Instead, to avoid hitting the shot to the left, wher you've aimed, you will tend to hodl your on-path clubface alignment slightly longer as it swings throught the ball. This increases your chances of making your clubface look in the right direction at the right time. The degree to which you should aim to the left depends on whether you normally slice or hook your shots."
Hmm . . . angled hinging and hitting???
LEE BUCK ON HOOKING . . .
"If you've been curving your shots badly to the left, you should try just the opposite procedure. First try aimingyoru clubface more to the left at address. This may make you react in yoru swing by reducing your wrist roll in that direction. You'll fear rolling your clubface to the left because you've already aimed father left. Instead, you'll hold the door open a bit longer through impact and thereby elimated the closed clubface that was giving you the hook."
Where have we heard the door analogy???
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Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 03-20-2006 at 04:29 PM.
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