Planes, Lines, and Words - Page 4 - LynnBlakeGolf Forums

Planes, Lines, and Words

The Golfing Machine - Basic

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
  #1  
Old 02-04-2005, 08:40 PM
Martee's Avatar
Martee Martee is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lenoir, NC
Posts: 573
Planes, Lines, and Words
Recently a few posts have been centered around the golf stroke's 'swing plane'. Be it for analysis, for an explanation, etc. This may sound counter to Mr. Kelley's teaching or your understanding but given what he has written and what exist in the world of science and math, not to mention what new technology has to offer us in our understanding, I submit the following for consideration and comments. Sorry for the length and rambling...it is long.

Really what we are talking about I believe is the 'Plane of Motion' - 2-F.

Plane of Motion (2-F) - All the action of the Golf Club takes place on a flat, inflexible, Inclined Plane which extends well beyond the circumference of the stroke--in every direction. The full length of the Clubshaft remain unwaveringly on the face of the Inclined Plane--Waggle to Follow-through.

Plane - A flat surface extending in all directions. Any three noncollinear points lie on one and only one plane. So do any two distinct intersecting lines. A plane is a two-dimensional figure. (http://www.mathwords.com/p/plane.htm)

Starting off with what Mr. Kelley defined or stated as 'How you can check if you are on plane'.

Golf Club on Plane (2-F) - There are some very simple but very accurate checks for being "on Plane." Whenever the Clubshaft is parallel to the ground it must also be parallel to the base line of the Inclined Plane which is usually (but not always) the Line of Flight also. Otherwise, the end of the Club that is closes to the ground must be pointing at the base line of the Inclined Plane--or extensions of that line, even if they must be extended to the horizon.

Inclined Plane - A flat surface of any extent positioned somewhere between horizontal and vertical. The through-the-waist "Plane of Rotation" of the Clubshaft as established during Address Routine.

Plane Line - A line inscribed on a flat surface to be considered its Base Line and the line along which that Plane is to be rotated when changing its angle. A line inscribed on the surface of the Inclined Plane passing through the Ball location to serve as its Base Line and its center of rotation when changing its angle.

Also in 2-F it is stated 'Regardless of where the Clubshaft and Clubhead are joined together, it always feels as if they are joined at the Sweet Spot--the longitudinal center of gravity, the line of the pull of Centrifugal Force.

Sweet Spot - The longitudinal Center of Gravity of a length of material. That spot on the Clubface through which a plum-bob line would pass if suspended from the Grip area.

So there is a "Clubshaft" Plane and a "Sweet Spot", or "Swing" Plane. But herein, unless otherwise noted, "Plane Angle" and "Plane Line" always refer to the Center of Gravity application.

Now this is a lot of planes and lines in a very short section of the chapter. If we look at 2-C-1, the diagram, we can see the following:
a. Inclined Plane
b. Clubshaft Plane
c. Sweet Spot Plane

Interesting is that the Inclined Plane and Clubshaft Plane are parallel to each other while the Sweet Spot Plane appears not to be.

This would have the Sweet Spot Plane to be flatter than the Inclined or Clubshaft Plane.

The Inclined Plane is used quite extensively in The Golfing Machine book for illustration purposes, it is in effect and fact the Plane Board Mr. Kelley used. And based on the pictures (realizing the pictures should only be studied for what they are label as to show, not anything else,) it is safe to state that the Clubshaft Plane is parallel to the Inclined Plane and their angles are the same.



1. I am not sure I have seen anyone actually draw the Sweet Spot Plane. Anyone know of picture of such?

2. Being on Plane is defined by Mr. Kelley of using the ClubShaft to the Base Line of the Inclined Plane. The Inclined Plane is not the Sweet Spot Plane if we are to use a Plane Board or reference Mr. Kelley's illustrations. This concept is very critical if one is going to use lasers.

3. If one is to use a Plane Board, then what is one really attempting to accomplish? Can you really trace the Sweet Spot Plane (Plane Line) when it is flatter than the Inclined Plane or Clubshaft Plane?

Digressing for a minute...

Note, I don't say this often but taking Mr. Kelley's words for the Sweet Spot (That spot on the Clubface through which a plum-bob line would pass if suspended from the Grip area. ) and the other words for Plane, which are "The longitudinal Center of Gravity of a length of material", need to be applied correctly. For the Golf Club it is the top center of the grip that the line will go through down to the clubface weighted center point of the Clubface. Take the test. Suspend the golf club vertically from the ceiling. Then parallel to it, suspend a plum line or weighted line where it is in the center of the grip. The weighted line will point down to an area on the clubface. Holding the plum line on the front, top, aft or bottom of the golf grip is not finding the Longitudinal Center of Gravity. I can hold the plum line on all four sides and have it point to the clubface, but this is not correct, it is not the center.

This is important, very important concept to understand correctly.

Back in 2-F again, Mr. Kelley explains, "Except during Impact, the Clubshaft can travel on, or to-and-from, either Plane because Club Shaft rotation must be around the Sweet Spot--not vice versa. So Clubhead "Feel" is Clubhead lag Pressure (6-C) and is a Golfing Imperative. (2-0). If Lag Pressure is lost the Hands tend to start the hosel (instead of the Sweet Spot) toward Impact--that mysterious "Shank". When in doubt, "Turn" the Clubface so both the Clubshaft and the Sweet Spot will be on the same Plane at the Start Down. Both Planes always pass through the Lag Pressure Point. ...

Monitoring, feeling, Clubhead Lag is the "Secret of Golf". It can be any one or any combination of Pressure Points, selected to sense Clubhead acceleration rate and direction (2-M-2), but herein, unless otherwise specified, always refers to Pressure Point #3. .... (6-C-2-0)

Imperative #2 A Clubhead Lag Pressure Point DOES NOT HAVE TO BE Pressure Point #3. Now for most of us mortal golfers, it probably is or should be. To state that Clubhead Lag Pressure Point is PP#3 period, is counter to Mr. Kelley's words.

4. Why is it that the Clubshaft rotates around the Sweet Spot? Is it because we have chosen that as a reference point? Is it because of centrifugal force? Could it be considered that the Clubshaft moves on a plane and the Clubhead rotation is a factor of (1) a fixed point from which the club is suspended and the natural action/path of the inclined plane [back, up and in causing the opening of the clubface, etc.] (2) the golfer's wrist actions of turning and rolled (3) a combination of both 1 and 2?

Where all this leads to is What defines the actual
a. Plane Line you employ for tracings?
b. What Line on a Down the Line Video can you draw to detect a proper Inclined Plane?
c. What does using Mr. Kelley's checks for on plane really mean (the clubshaft to the Plane Line)?
d. Right Forearm on Clubshaft Angle and what Plane Angle is being used?
e. Most of the above assumes Zero Shift BUT....

Golf Club Design is an important factor in consideration. The golf club to begin with has a forward lean, which promotes the hands leading the clubhead. The golf shaft Lie Angle is fixed per club and ideally the sole of the clubhead will at Impact/Separation will be parallel to the surface. This indicates that the clubshaft angle (Lie Angle) is at least a factor if not critical in an alignment at Impact.

7-6 states, "The Clubshaft must start its journey on the Plane of its Address angle of inclination. It may or may not more to other Planes as it travels."

Mr. Kelley noted that at address or Impact Fix, that the club should not be grounded, if it is grounded then the toe should be up and aft ball location should be closer to the toe. (2-J-1)

In addition Mr. Kelley indicated that the faster the swing, the more centrifugal force, the more the clubhead will be pulled down. Often referred to as Clubhead Droop. Suppose ably with modern shaft technology this has been minimized.

So ideally the clubshaft angle at Impact/Separation meets the requirements/design of the golf club, ensures toe/heel not a factor, though the ball should be gone before either makes contact with the ground and the applied forces and sweet spot are aligned to provide the best resultant.




Again sorry for long post, but in attempting to make some sense of a few basics, I rambled through this mess.

Thoughts, Comments, etc.? (I hope I proofed this okay )
__________________
Good Golfing
Martee
Reply With Quote
 


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hinge Action Planes Mathew The Golfing Machine - Basic 8 01-25-2007 02:08 PM
Three Most Important Words in TGM... EC The Lab 3 07-28-2006 11:55 PM
Da Planes, Da Planes? hcw The Golfing Machine - Basic 8 02-02-2006 05:17 PM
Planes and arcs vj The Other Game - Putting 3 12-10-2005 10:51 AM
shifting planes sdsurfmore Emergency Room - Hitters 6 10-20-2005 09:39 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:25 AM.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.