Why a fade?

[golf2much]

The following exchange came from the GEA site, and I'm trying to understand why the hitting pattern is said to generate a fade type ball flight. I'm a TGM novice, so be gentle.

Thanks
golf2much

Hitters set up with the face more and more closed the longer the shot to compensate for this laying back. On the other hand swingers who use horizontal hinging set up with the face more and more open the longer the shot to compesate for the closing through impact.

What I'm really asking about is what happens during the impact interval to create the fade. I think I understand what you have said( I'm a TGM novice at best), but it doesn't explain the fade ball flight. For a ball to fade, there must be a rotational component of the backspin that is left to right (right hander), which implies that the clubface must be moving in the opposite (right to left) to some extent to impart the fade spin component. How, specifically does this happen if the clubface is closing during impact interval, and on a inside to outside path?

[RickPinewild]

I think it is called hinge action! 2G. Watch Chapter IV of Tom Tomasello in the gallery.

[jim_0068]

Hitters set up with the face more and more closed the longer the shot to compensate for this laying back. On the other hand swingers who use horizontal hinging set up with the face more and more open the longer the shot to compesate for the closing through impact.

that is pretty close to accurate...

Hitters setup with more of a closed face the LONGER THE CLUB, NOT THE SHAFT.

Swingers DO NOT setup with the clup open AT ALL unless they want too.

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Now i will help clarify. First there are 3 types of HINGE ACTION:
Horizontal
Angled
Vertical

I'm not really going to go into much detail of each hinge because there is plenty of info already here that you can read and learn. I would first check out this 3D animation that our resdient Mathew created here:
http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=560

Also i would advise checking out the Tom Tomasello tape on hinging here:
http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=677
(i'd also check out all the other tom tomasello tapes as well)

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Swingers tend to use horizontal hinging. Horizontal hinging works like a normal door does, it simply opens and closes on a single fixed pin. The swinging OPENS the club in the backswing, hits the ball with a slightly open clubface, the face squares up during impact, and it CLOSES going back up the plane. Horizontal also produces a "hooded" or "delofting" effect as well. This gives a lower initial trajectory and often the longest shot and also usually produces either a straight shot or a small draw which produces a some roll on landing.

Hitters tend ot use angled hinging. For an explanation on how angled hinging work, please look at the animation because i can't really describe it better than what the animation shows. However i can tell you WHY angled hinging leads to a fade.

Angled hinging tends toward fading because the face doesn't "fully close" during impact like horizontal hinging does. The angled hinge CLOSES AND LAYS BACK SIMULTANEOUSLY instead of closing and hooding like horizontal hinging does. Due to this "layback" (unfinished closing effect) the ball tends to fade because it didn't square up totally through impact. Also, since angled hinging doesn't hood the club like horizontal hinging does, it creates a HIGHER initial flight.

Vertical hinging is a hinge where the clubFACE stays perpendicular to the plane. After impact the face doesn't close at all, it stays square to the perpendicular to the plane. Check out the animation and the video for an example.

Hope that helps.

[golf2much]

Thanks for the great explanation... my faith in physics is restored (LOL).

[Mike O]

Golf2much,
Now that your faith in physics has been restored- I'd like to see my faith restored, that a few people out there have learned some basic facts of TGM. Can someone help me, by explaining one or more of the items that are incorrect in Jim's post.
Thanks,
Mike O.
P.S. In this particular situation- I'll consider the shorter your answer the more in-depth your knowledge.

[jim_0068]

What are you asking?

Angled hinging closes and laysback simultaneously and produces a "no roll feel." Due to that the ball goes higher and tends to fade depending on ball position.

Horizontal hinging closes and hoods and produces a "full roll feel." Due to that the ball goes higher and tends to draw or produce straight shots depending on how inside/out your impact is and your ball position.

Vertical hinging doesn't close and stays perpendicular to the plane line and produces a "reverse roll feel." Due to this the ball will tend to fade and be well right of the intended target.

[lagster]

Golf2much,
Now that your faith in physics has been restored- I'd like to see my faith restored, that a few people out there have learned some basic facts of TGM. Can someone help me, by explaining one or more of the items that are incorrect in Jim's post.
Thanks,
Mike O.
P.S. In this particular situation- I'll consider the shorter your answer the more in-depth your knowledge.

.................................................. .................................................. .....

I think Jim has the general idea, however.... technically, Swingers use Dual Horizontal Hinging. The face is slightly OPEN at impact and Square at Separation, for a straight shot.

Hitters tend to fade because of the Angled Hinge and "uncentered" motion of the clubface. 2-J-1/ 2-D-O

[MBCpro]

NO hooding in horizontal hinging.

Todd

[brianmanzella]

Hey Mike 0!

I think Jim did fine (solid B to B=) for a golfer (not a teacher), in fact, there is one much more important thing about Jim....


HE CAN DEMONSTRATE!

[jim_0068]

Thanks brian.....i only try and dive into the book to the extent that i can understand.

thats why i don't own it, won't read it, and just let you interpret it for me

Call me lazy i don't care...haha

MBC, I don't understand how horizontal hinging doesn't hood or deloft the clubface. If you hands are leading the club aren't you hooding or delofting to some effect? Granted you can exaggerate it but isn't there some delofting to it?

Or when is the loft on a club measured when it is soled correctly and the handle is already leading slightly?

Thanks

jim