I don't think so. The farther ahead the hands are at impact, the later the release, and so more head speed, because the max speed is attained shortly after release point and then starts slowing.
Lots of variables for this to achieve the status of axiomatic....
Look at the pics in the first post...grip type is a HUGE difference....also...fat jack BOMBED it.....hands forward ala Gainey vs. Nicklaus.....Players like Lee Buck/Gainey have to get the amount of shaft lean to have the face open enough so they don't hit it left of left....for mere mortals could be problematic....cats like Mac O'Grady Philly McGlennerd ....love the shaft lean but may air mail a green by hitting a 7 iron 210....it may look sexier .... but who's packin' the hardware???
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Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 04-14-2012 at 02:30 PM.
That sounds like 4-barrel Hitting - drive the right shoulder partially downplane and then fire the right triceps to uncock the left wrist before CF starts uncocking it. If you fire too late, you'd be a switter, and run outa town like a mangy dog.
I was going to buy a new driver at least but I cannot think of why I should put the Adam Red Line 9.5 with the senior shaft away.
I hit 13/13 drives in Regulation and the avg. was almost 240 yards. Would a "hotter" driver help?
8 GIR, 33 puts - 3 birdies. The Paul Runion putting and putting my chips had me all over the pin so that there was only two 3 putts on "14" stint greens. 5-one putt greens = 2 close chips for gimmies of less than a foot and two 8 footers= and one 40 foot bomb!
My real problem was not believing how solid the Hitting line is so I would fail to take dead aim mostly until the back and then I started pin-hunting. My last 3 nines were 40, 39 and 38.
Impact Fix +RFT + Right shoulder drive to right triceps + Runion techniques = 5 over par! I hit two holes with longish putts that lipped out. Next time-dead aim to the middle of all greens!
ICT
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
The shot may go farther when struck in the above manner for mid to low irons due to delofting. Radius and loft are the factors in distance .... the delofting stops working as you get into into the longer, less lofted clubs.
Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket
Lots of variables for this to achieve the status of axiomatic....
Look at the pics in the first post...grip type is a HUGE difference....also...fat jack BOMBED it.....hands forward ala Gainey vs. Nicklaus.....Players like Lee Buck/Gainey have to get the amount of shaft lean to have the face open enough so they don't hit it left of left....for mere mortals could be problematic....cats like Mac O'Grady Philly McGlennerd ....love the shaft lean but may air mail a green by hitting a 7 iron 210....it may look sexier .... but who's packin' the hardware???
nice...
is one better geometry than the other? does one have more power/physics
is one better geometry than the other? does one have more power/physics
Depends on the player/shot at hand/preferences/grip type/all that trackman stuff/......lots of variables to manipulate.....
Would be interesting to see how much shaft lean the greats produced with say a 5 iron....a few ways to lean it too...lean AND raise the handle up...Lean it and don't...with the hands with the body or both...Hogan and Nicklaus didn't produce huge amounts of lean...one had lots of #2 to let out and the other one didn't...Lee Buck opposite end of spectrum...better get the right amount of lean to get the face open enough not to start the ball left.
So you can see the other side of the angle of attack is the angle of ascent....another strong gripper like Lee Buck is Couples but his "arc" is gonna be "shorter"...quicker rate of ascent...faster "recocking" through the ball...thus hits a higher ball...
I don't think so. The farther ahead the hands are at impact, the later the release, and so more head speed, because the max speed is attained shortly after release point and then starts slowing.
I am not debating the fact that a snap release can have more speed than a sweep release, I am only addressing your statement that after release it starts slowing
from 2-m-1 basic power
...Centrifugal acceleration is staunchly proportional to the angular speed of its center and reaches a maximum speed almost instantly after release and tries to remain constant...
a sweep release can still be a true kinetic chain.
the flat left wrist and clubshaft being in-line with the left arm is the number one geometrical alignment of the circle. arguably the basis for precision geometry, gainey and trevino's strong grips and forward lean have geometry of their own but it is not congruent with the machine concept's geometry.
btw i like their strong grips with the shaft lean over exaggerated forward lean with a normal grip and ARCHED left wrist as we see some tgmers focusing only on forward lean and not realizing that it is within the context of the structure, the release, the roll, the geometry, and the flat left wrist. The clubhead should be in-line like nicklaus to produce the machine concept's intended geometry.
So because it reaches maximum speed shortly after release and stays constant a ball hit Well prior to full extension vs. one that is hit just prior to full extension will have the same speed as long as you do not disturb the force. this would mean that a ball position further back in the stance will produce a shot that may go further (given the same release point and all other factors being equal) because they will have equal speed but one with less loft turning a pw into a short 8 iron like ob says. although gainey has a similar ball position to nicklaus', it's as if gainey is playing the ball way back in his stance. the extreme forward lean and delay facilitated by the strong left hand grip like bucket said
sweep release or random sweep users can still produce a clubhead speed equal to their snap release counterpart with a high turning speed or high hand speed.
I am not debating the fact that a snap release can have more speed than a sweep release, I am only addressing your statement that after release it starts slowing
from 2-m-1 basic power
...Centrifugal acceleration is staunchly proportional to the angular speed of its center and reaches a maximum speed almost instantly after release and tries to remain constant...
Like the clubhead, I've tried a lot of things that didn't quite make it!
Even if it is true that a sweep releaser's max head speed is sustained to impact through the free-wheeling stage of uncocking(which I don't believe), a snap release increases the uncocking speed by the momentum imparted to the club as the hands hit the end of their straight line effort path - the "hard" release, and therefore has a higher max head speed. This is true kinetic chain snapping, and isn't available to the sweep releaser.
As for hand speed, in the TSP Swing, the hands should only move as fast as they are driven downplane by the right shoulder to release point. The hands should get ahead because of the pivot and a late release, not by hand/arm effort, which is steering.
the sweep releaser with his large pulley can have less velocity and more thrust, and with a high turning speed, and or high hand speed can produce a speed equal to a snap releaser who's hand speed is limited (for a given player), as snap release noticeably restricts maximum hand speed homer's words...
If you think that the clubhead is slowing down after it uncocks you are completely missing the pulley concept.
true kinetic energy is certainly available to a sweep releaser, as long as the hips pull the shoulders ,pulls the arms, pulls the hands, pulls the shaft, pulls the clubhead all the way through the ball.
who brought up hand/arm effort anywhere? if the hands are seeking their delivery line this is not steering.
mj maybe you are thinking of impact deceleration which is a completely separate factor. when the club releases the angular momentum is proportionate to the turning speed. there are so many power sources that can be configured in so many ways, snap release, random sweep, sweep release, hitting, swinging, overlapped accumulators, sequenced accumulators, turning speed, hand speed, swing radius, thrust, velocity, etc... there is more than one way to create maximum distance for a given player, some create speed one way others another way.
Originally Posted by MizunoJoe
Like the clubhead, I've tried a lot of things that didn't quite make it!
first bolded, the sweep releaser with his large pulley can have less velocity and more thrust, and with a high turning speed, and or high hand speed can produce a speed equal to a snap releaser who's hand speed is limited, as snap release noticeably restricts maximum hand speed, not my words homer's...
whatever speed it creates with whatever pulley size aka however soon or late you release the club shortly after release the speed created will remain constant as long as you keep turning.
If you think that the clubhead is slowing down after it uncocks you are completely missing the pulley concept.
second bolded.. true kinetic energy is certainly available to a sweep releaser, as long as the hips pull the shoulders pulls the arms pulls the hands pulls the shaft pulls the clubhead all the way through the ball it is just more thrust than velocity as all the accumulators are going nearly at once.
third bolded.. who brought up hand/arm effort anywhere? if the hands are seeking their delivery line this is certainly not steering.
mj maybe you are thinking of impact deceleration which is a completely separate factor...
try harder, no quitting
1st bolded - In a TSP Swing, your hand speed is limited by right shoulder speed, unless you throwaway #4, which is pivot power, in which case even if you could spin like a politician, it won't do much good. And, if you're also sweep releasing, which is #2 throwaway, you've thrown away your two power sources! And, even if #4 isn't thrown away, why could someone turn faster sweeping than snapping?
2nd bolded - No it won't remain constant in the real world - too much friction in the human machine - remember the word "tries"?
3rd bolded - You are carrying the pulley analogy too far. In the golf swing, the pulley section is less than 90 degs, not 180, and the hand speed isn't constant as it is in the endless belt pulley.
4th bolded - I brought it up. If you over accelerate the hands from the top and sweep release, you will have to steer to get the hands to beat the club head to the ball.
5th bolded - And if my Aunt had testicles, she would be my Uncle, which would also be a completely separate factor.
6th bolded - You can't push a shopping cart any faster than you can run, no matter how hard you try.
1st bolded - In a TSP Swing, your hand speed is limited by right shoulder speed, unless you throwaway #4, which is pivot power, in which case even if you could spin like a politician, it won't do much good. And, if you're also sweep releasing, which is #2 throwaway, you've thrown away your two power sources! And, even if #4 isn't thrown away, why could someone turn faster sweeping than snapping?
2nd bolded - No it won't remain constant in the real world - too much friction in the human machine - remember the word "tries"?
3rd bolded - You are carrying the pulley analogy too far. In the golf swing, the pulley section is less than 90 degs, not 180, and the hand speed isn't constant as it is in the endless belt pulley.
4th bolded - I brought it up. If you over accelerate the hands from the top and sweep release, you will have to steer to get the hands to beat the club head to the ball.
5th bolded - And if my Aunt had testicles, she would be my Uncle, which would also be a completely separate factor.
6th bolded - You can't push a shopping cart any faster than you can run, no matter how hard you try.
you seem to be under the impression that as soon as you release the club you start losing energy and speed so you better jam it as far down there as late as possible so that you don't have time to lose speed, this is not correct. A sweep release has a larger pulley than a snap release, how is this "taking the pulley analogy too far" and what are you talking about when you say 90 degrees, 180 degrees?? and the handspeed "not constant as in the endless belt" not sure what you mean there either. "you can't push a shopping cart any faster than you can run"... and??
Also homer wrote a book based on laws OF THE REAL WORLD not sure what you mean by friction in the human machine or why the principles don't hold up in "the real world".
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