Watching some video from the other day I noticed that I have a "LOT" of hip turn going back. I had been seeing the club go back okay and then when it was suppose to be going up it was behind my butt. As I worked on the right arm takeaway I thought I corrected the problem and I had not. So I got to looking at the pivot, I have been scared to death to transfer my weight to my right side but have been trying to load my weight into the inner right thigh. What I found is that I am not really getting into that leg at all and look to be getting to my left to quick from the massive hip turn (Like a fast Hogan or S&T). The massive hip turn on the down swing starts to fire but stal's out and there is no chance to clear like lets say Duval or Hogan with the butt facing the DTL at impact.
So, I decided to pull out the drawing board and work on different pivots and hinge points. The pivot I have landed on is as I am taking it back with my right hand/forearm I move into my right leg lateral, but I do not slide over it. What this lets me do is the slight lateral move to the right leg keeps the hips still from over turning as I get the club to waist high out in-front of me.
Then I started playing with hinge points, and what I found was kinda neat. So, the club is waist high and the lateral right has keep the hips from turning much. I start to hinge the club up like it is going through my ear, but on video it is splitting my right arm. I have tried to go to the top like this but the club looks a little across the line, so what I did to correct that is to hinge by pushing the palm of the left hand away from me laying the club off a bit.
As I am reaching the top, my hips have started to turn, but change direction from the lateral left pivot. I let the hands then free falls back to the aiming point and I am clearing much better from the lack of the massive hip turn on the back swing.
I have been trying to work the shot process out to what I am consistently getting, I will hit a high push, a low pull, and nice draw. I believe the high push is I am underneath on the way down and the hands do get to the aiming point, the low pull me flipping and not getting to the aiming point, and the nice draw well is free flowing. What I am not quiet finding is my patten cut/fade what I have been trying to do is hit the outside to cut/fade the ball but I do not like this. With my swing the One Plane Cut I try to attach from the inside with a hard rotary motion and basically hit a push/draw that fades at the end. I am all about learning though and, I am trying to put all the pieces together here. Like I had mention in another post, TGM has a lot of things that interest me and that I already believe in before finding LB's forum.
If anyone wants to chime in on what I have mention above to the motion of the lateral right to lateral left pivot please feel free. We can only learn from one another mistakes and achievement's.
Thanks,
BurleyGolf-
Last edited by BurleyGolf : 04-05-2009 at 01:10 AM.
By pushing the palm of the left hand away it causes 2 problems.. The first is that you are using the left hand in a dominant way, and Second its not a true left hinge like LB shows in his video. So, what I did to correct this is; I gripped tighter with the thumb and forefinger making sure the left was not active, and the tried to acquire the same feel.
I would like some thoughts on the lateral pivot motion above, let me know if you think it is a good idea, or it is just plain stupid. I will try to put up a video to show you guys but still would like some insight or opinion's about how I have described it above.
I'm pretty sure there should be no lateral hip movement in the backswing.
While maintaining a stationary head, in startup your right hip turns behind you, clearing the way for the hands (clear your right hip slightly at address if you're a hitter).
On the downswing your hips slide laterally (only) an inch or so, altering your spine angle, which allows your hands (and right shoulder) to work down plane. The Downstroke waggle is your friend here (3-F-5). Check it out!
Nice one Andy. 10-14-B Slide Hip Turn. Hitting or Swinging in the 7th. A slight slide to shift the weight left with a delayed Hip Turn. Thats the way I do it although I try to get that little slide parallel to my hitters cross line Delivery Line, Angle of Approach before Im at Top or End with longer clubs. Trying to anyways like V.J. Trolio suggests. With shorter clubs Im pretty much just staying on my left side but doing much the same with the cleared right hip.
I had formerly thought of the Pivot as being turn, turn , turn. I guess most people do, but then most people also wonder why their swinging outside to in. Pivot to hands, roundhousing. Overly active turning can take you off plane going back or through. Mr Kelley was bang on about the Right HIp needing to be cleared in both directions which to me feels like Im not turning my hips actively through the ball at all. It just sort of happens on its own, you cant stop it really. Going back yes for sure, im clearing the Right Hip or my right shoulder is ("top down") but going down Im leaving it back. The slide is the "ground up", "swinging from the feet" Startdown move, no turn needed.
As far a lateral on the backswing, I think that Luke in his chosen pattern utilizes a little Hula Hula Flexibility in his backswing....a little lateral slide of the hips before the right hip turns back. For him its a Slide with a Delayed HIp Turn in both directions.
Lots of options, millions or is it trillions? To each his own.
At first I didnt get it, maybe didnt want to but now I think that all those nice positions we admired for so long werent created by merely copping them but rather by the alignments associated with the entire motion. I used to fret over my wrist cock positions, for instance, now I dont even try to do it (actively) and it looks great. If I say so myself, although all I did was listen to Lynn.
Thanks, not sure I am sure if the answer is it is okay and not okay? I am just trying to experiment the right ways. My biggest concern like I said is the over use of the hips in the back swing, and it seems that if I make a latteral shift into my right leg that the hips do not start turning till I get the club going up! I played like this Sunday and 7 iron thru LW I was all over the pin, but the longer clubs all were big draws or pulls. Later in the round I noticed my set up was a little off and my left hip was very open after correcting this there was no problem, but felt like the power was less.
If I do turn into the inner right thigh like I teach, I over use my hips to much and as the club is parralle with the ground on the BS the head of the club gets behind my hands and buttox. That is the first problem!
The second problem is; when I turn my hips to much, I find on the DS that my hips get back to square at impact but they have spent the firing energy, only place to go is a little out as posture and erect, and then after impact a foot or so they fire again hard clearing. The little erect problem is mainly with the long irons and woods. Short irons not seen much.
Its funny I thought I was burrying my head on the DS, but my head stays perfectly still and in place. Its my mid section is humping the goat and keeping the hips from the continues rotation.
With this new lateral shift into my right leg, its funny there is no difference in the DS, I just get it into a better position @ the top with a delayed hip turn on the back swing. I guess that takes me back to my old beliefs; the only move that matters is starting the DS till Impact. Although the correct BS helps you get there, but there are so many variations of the BS, I watch the senior tour and confim that to myself every time I think else wise..
Have you got Lynn's DVD? On the second disc you'll find a lot of material on the Pivot, Zone 1. As well as the Arms, Zone 2 and Hands, Zone 3.
So much terminology I know. But suffice it say that you must have a good Pivot or anything else built on top of it in Zone 2 or 3 is suspect. Like what good is a nice Horizontal Hinge Action if your hitting off your back foot? To further confuse matters it is Zone 3 that directs everything. "The Hands are not educated until they control the Pivot." Weird at first but so amazing when its sinks in. Hands to Pivot. The brain and Hands work together all the time in every day life and in such a complex, fast manner. Why not in golf?
Most people have it the other way around. Pivot to Hands. One of things about this that is so injurious to your alignments and game is that ideally the Arms as directed by the Hands are going "Up" while the Pivot or Shoulders and Hips are going "Back". Putting the Pivot in control of things normally sends the Pivot as well as the Arms and Hands "Back" with the club going under the Plane. Like you describe in your own swing when you are over doing it with the hips, perhaps. The opposite extreme is a "Frozen" Right Hip that is not cleared that sets up a collision course between the Right Elbow and Right Hip which is reconciled when the golfer unknowingly directs the Right Arm and Elbow "Out" and above plane. "Roundhousing".
So you must have a pivot. Too much is too much and too little is too little. Hands to Pivot doesnt mean there is zero pivot, it only describes who is directing things. The Hands are like an outpost for the Brian, sensing, feeling, aligning etc. The brain and hands work together all the time, tying our shoes, catching, typing etc. Amazing stuff we dont think too much about , a special ability we humans have and a shame to turn off when golfing.
Sorry for rambling but its hard to just give you a yes or no answer. There are options but it should help you to know that Mr Kelley prescribed a Cleared Right Hip as a prevention for "Roundhousing" both on the backswing and on the downswing. So sure lateral shift if you want but clear the right hip well before your right elbow gets there. What I do personally is clear the darn thing as early I can and leave it back in transition. I clear, then slide all with a centered head, like a Hula Dancer that only sways to one side. But with a beer belly and its my Hands that are keeping things on plane, Aligned.
I dont know if they're Educated Hands yet but if they quit school they can get the heck outa my house.
Thanks for that great video from the range at Houston. I love watching those guys practice.
OB
PS As for erect, goat humping, Id suggest you not allow them in the bedroom and consider whether or not your left arm and club (Primary Lever) is slack at Fix. This relates to Lukes note about the Level Left Wrist. The hump can sometimes be an effort to move the Left Shoulder further from the ball to compensate for a dynamically stretched Primary Lever that is longer than planned. The cure being to preview Impact at Fix and align things accordingly. Just a thought.
Each time I intentionally do a laterally shift will result in low push draw (or mishit), if i just push from the top with my all my body parts follow ( i feel the hip goes laterally first but not as doing a hip slip independently first), the shot is good. I am unable to do the take out the slack move, but I hope it's already done as you said hand control pivot?
Linear Mode
