[comdpa]

I have fought a flip for a long time...longer than I have known what a flip is.

I think it is tied into my pivot though. I don't flip on shorter shots, but when I get to full shots my pivot stalls and i run out of right arm as my right shoulder stops turning down and around through the ball. Therefore I flip it.

How can I train my pivot to keep going better? How does a problem like this tie into hand controlled pivot vs pivot controlled hands. I sense all the problem with my hands, but I think the pivot is the issue.

Hi Toolish...

The first question you need to address is what causes the right arm to run out of gas.

The Cause

Per 7-13: "Keep that Right Shoulder not only "back" but also "down" (On Plane), or you will "run out of Right Arm" before the Hands reach Impact Position - an automatic Throwaway (7-14, 8-6)"

Running out of Right Arm simply means that the Right Arm straightens before impact.

The Effects

With a Roundhouse move, the Right Arm simply has to straighten in order for the clubhead to reach the ball because the Right Shoulder is not where it was at Impact Fix.

With a straight right arm at impact, you will per 2-P produce a "soft" Impact - a useful simplification no doubt, but one that you are most likely avoiding.

Further as a result of that Right Shoulder roundhousing, your Right Forearm will come into Impact too high - Hackersville - per 2-F.

The Golfing Machine is a Hands System but per 6-G-0: "Educated Hands can compensate for Off Line Hip and SHOULDER MOTION but only up to a point."

I emphasize SHOULDER MOTION.

9-1: "Emphatically, Hands are not educated until they control the Pivot."

12-3-0: "Note that no Zone #1 elements are listed - Educated Hands control the Pivot (9-1)."

One may find a contradiction between these three verses (7-13, 9-1 and 12-3-0), but hold on, I will get back to this.

You mention that you do not experience such problems for chips and pitches because for such strokes, the hands do not go to the Top or End position per 10-21-A/C respectively. Further, Pivot is not activated.

In 8-6 of the 3rd Edition, Mr. Kelley, says of the Top..."This is the first chance for Clubhead Throwaway to sneak in."
Read this with 7-13, "...Automatic Throwaway" in mind.

So what now?

Train the Hands or Pivot?

Per 9-0: "The Three Zones are a natural division of the action. Their identities must be maintained in teaching, practice and playing. And unless developed in SEQUENCE, a very weak "compensated" game is inevitable."

With all due respect, practitioners who say "just train the hands" or "just train the pivot" give only a side of the story.
Again, I refer to 9-0.

9-2: "Zone #3 can never be better than its Zones #1 and #2 support." This is blatant that Pivot Training must take place.

Again 9-2: "But don't delay moving on - Zones #2 and #3 must be coordinated as soon as feasible." This is blatant that Pivot Training is not the end-all of The Golfing Machine.

As I mentioned early, to reconcile the apparent contradiction between 7-12, 9-1, 12-3-0; think of it as...

1) Train the Pivot
2) Train the Hands
3) Let the Educated Hands control the Educated Pivot

In 12-5-1 and 12-5-2, training the Pivot merely entails one to stand 'still' per 10-12-D, thus not much training of the Pivot takes place except to stand still!

However in 12-5-3, Pivot Motion then comes into play.

Training the Pivot

In training my students, this is where the 'real' Pivot training begins, and it is simple really.

9-1 shows us what the Pivot components are:

Pivot
Shoulder Turn
Hip Turn
Hip Action
Knee Action
Foot Action

I recommend that you use the pictures in 9-1 as well as the pictures depicting YOUR pivot components as a guide to train your pivot.

For example, 10-13-A, Standard Shoulder Turn will show you how the shoulders are supposed to work if using that variation.

Thus, you use the pictures in 9-1 and YOUR variations as guideposts. Remember not to use your hands. Best to keep them behind your back in Zone #1 training. And then per Mr. Kelley's admonition...coordinate Zone #2 and #3 as soon as possible.

A Short-Cut

There is a 'short-cut' though in a form of a drill...

1. Take a Baseball grip per 10-1-B, making sure that your hands are at least 3 inches apart.

2. Make your normal swing or hit.

I shall not elaborate on this, but suffice to say, if your shots go long and straight with this drill, your divots point slightly right of the target line and you can see the proper blur of the Clubhead passage through Release per 8-0, you GOT IT!