I have never understood how someone could have the shaft, right shoulder and right arm all on the Turned Shoulder Plane at imapct without a straight right arm. However, in a recent thread someone said that nowhere in the book does it say that the shoulder should be on the TSP at impact, so I guess that answers that.

Homer:
"After a 13-B or 12-C Backstroke Shoulder Turn, the Right Shoulder moves toward Impact precisely on the preselected Downstroke Clubshaft Plane, estblishing and supporting the Power Package Delivery alignments."

Can you please explain what you mean in a different way?

Belt speed (hand speed) reaches its maximum at the beginning of Release, and then stays constant during the Release Interval.

I don't really have any huge nagging 'problems' with the book.

I think the best way to study it is to say to yourself, "Okay, I'm going to trust the info in this book for X weeks/months/years and see where it takes my game." Many people try a new method or system and don't fully commit to it, instead trying to use it as a bridge between their old (faulty) stroke pattern and their desired new one. That simply won't work. With anything new, you have to fully trust it to get any benefit.

That's what I did with the book about 5 years ago. My game improved and that was that.

How can it possibly move on anything but the TSP? Isn't the TSP the angle from the tip of the rear shoulder at the end of the backstroke, no matter where it stops, to the baseline of the plane?

Tong, it's a nice quote, but doesn't really clear up (for me, it's all about me remember :D ) whether or not the rear shoulder should remain on its downstroke plane angle from the End, to the end of the Follow Through, never leaving it. Is there an official, written in concrete, answer on that?

There was a pic posted by Mathew in the Delivery Path and Flying Wedges thread showing Yoda "achieving a perfect Turned Shoulder Plane with Zero Shift". Yoda's shoulder was above the TSP at impact, and I asked if that was indeed perfect execution, because if it was I could update my understanding. Nobody answered, and I didn't push it. Maybe I should have :oops:

Right Shoulder on-plane?
 

I think it's obvious that the right shoulder is ideally just on-plane during the start-down. If it's thrusting - then ideally during that thrust period it would be on plane- but not necessary as you could have an offsetting thrust to balance it out if it was thrusting offplane- see 2-N-1 for that discussion. Of course, there are certain limited conditions/strokes where the right shoulder could be on-plane throughout the downstroke - but we're talking about the norm i.e. you'll have a tough time finding a professional who has their right shoulder on plane at impact- if not impossible. For those that think the right shoulder should/could be on plane throughout the downstroke then you'll need to clearly prove your point.

Agreed...and that recent thread answer was by me...

:)


Not again...Moving precisely towards impact (which I advocate strongly), does not mean at imp[act the same condition stands....

Just my take....

Agree! Just another one of those things where reality does not match theory.

Like you said earlier, you can and should have Right Shoulder On Plane at Start Down, but it's not really practical at Impact. Interestingly, at Follow Through, you'll find quite a lot of players with their Right Shoulder back On Plane.

OK good. So the word is that you shouldn't be worried if your downstroke shoulder turn becomes flat at some point after start down. This is good. Now I can put to rest my Turned Shoulder plane confusion. Finally, you bloody rippa!!:D

Now
"After a 13-B or 12-C Backstroke Shoulder Turn, the Right Shoulder moves toward Impact precisely on the preselected Downstroke Clubshaft Plane, estblishing and supporting the Power Package Delivery alignments."

Can someone clear this up for me. How can the rear shoulder move downplane at startdown, on anything but the Turned Shoulder Plane?

Ok...I have 2.

1. Hinge action being differentiated from swivel. While I know programming is required...anyone that can actually differentiate hinge action from swivel is someone with some serious serious talent and feel.

2. Rotating lag pressure point (actually feeling it).