FIX

[lagster]

At Fix... Tom Tomasello taught that the Clubface should be slightly open.
I believe he wanted the face increasingly a little more OPEN as the clubs got longer.

What do you think? For Hitters... this is probably a little different.

He believed that one of the major causes of throwaway was..."trying to hit the back of the ball with a square clubface".

[annikan skywalker]

Open...for horizontal hinging...more open as the club gets longer ...

angled hinging as the club gets longer...more closed

[jim_0068]

Open...for horizontal hinging...more open as the club gets longer ...

angled hinging as the club gets longer...more closed

Exactly.

that is why people who "swing" and "full roll it" like driver heads with OPEN FACES.

this is also why people who "hit" and "half roll it" like driver heads with CLOSED FACES.

EX:

Vijay (swinger) = 3-4* open faces on his driver
Furyk (hitter) = 1-3* closed face on his driver

[Mike O]

Per 2-J-1 "The longer the SHOT", not "The longer the CLUB".

For most of you, including annikan, jim, lagster - you already know that. You were saying longer club and assuming that you are talking about a longer shot. Although a longer club doesn't always mean a longer shot. However for anyone new or learning- the clarification could help them. For those new to TGM the next question is " Why more open the longer the shot?" Because as again, most know by now- the more compression, the more distance the clubhead travels and the more the face closes while the ball is on the face.

Now the real question is- if on the longer shots the face closes enough while the ball is on the face- to make alterations in the amount the clubface is open at impact fix for horizontal hinging, then how long of a distance is the ball traveling on the clubface/clubhead? And how does that integrate with the Golfing Machine concept that the ball always leaves at right angles to the clubface- i.e. that the return flow is so fast that the ball doesn't ride on the clubhead/face long enough for the down and out vector of the clubhead to influence the initial direction of the ball?

Mike O.

[annikan skywalker]

Mike O...

Great Point.....I should never "ASSUME"

2-J-1

It does say "longer shot"..my fault for not having the book in front of me when making a POST

Thank you for that outstanding point!!!!


Skywalker

[EdZ]

Per 2-J-1 "The longer the SHOT", not "The longer the CLUB".

For most of you, including annikan, jim, lagster - you already know that. You were saying longer club and assuming that you are talking about a longer shot. Although a longer club doesn't always mean a longer shot. However for anyone new or learning- the clarification could help them. For those new to TGM the next question is " Why more open the longer the shot?" Because as again, most know by now- the more compression, the more distance the clubhead travels and the more the face closes while the ball is on the face.

Now the real question is- if on the longer shots the face closes enough while the ball is on the face- to make alterations in the amount the clubface is open at impact fix for horizontal hinging, then how long of a distance is the ball traveling on the clubface/clubhead? And how does that integrate with the Golfing Machine concept that the ball always leaves at right angles to the clubface- i.e. that the return flow is so fast that the ball doesn't ride on the clubhead/face long enough for the down and out vector of the clubhead to influence the initial direction of the ball?

Mike O.

How much do you think the ball being used is a factor here? Clearly there is a difference between a 'distance' ball and say an old prof 90 in feel/softness, and I would guess (without having see any solid data) in result between a high vs low compression ball. Do you think this difference merits consideration in how open/closed the clubface should be at address?

[tincup2004]

Edz, check out this site:

http://www.golfballtest.com/index.php

[lagster]

Per 2-J-1 "The longer the SHOT", not "The longer the CLUB".

For most of you, including annikan, jim, lagster - you already know that. You were saying longer club and assuming that you are talking about a longer shot. Although a longer club doesn't always mean a longer shot. However for anyone new or learning- the clarification could help them. For those new to TGM the next question is " Why more open the longer the shot?" Because as again, most know by now- the more compression, the more distance the clubhead travels and the more the face closes while the ball is on the face.

Now the real question is- if on the longer shots the face closes enough while the ball is on the face- to make alterations in the amount the clubface is open at impact fix for horizontal hinging, then how long of a distance is the ball traveling on the clubface/clubhead? And how does that integrate with the Golfing Machine concept that the ball always leaves at right angles to the clubface- i.e. that the return flow is so fast that the ball doesn't ride on the clubhead/face long enough for the down and out vector of the clubhead to influence the initial direction of the ball?

Mike O.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Good point!!!! A chip shot with a 5 iron would br different than a full shot in this regard.

[12 piece bucket]

Originally Posted by Mike O

Per 2-J-1 "The longer the SHOT", not "The longer the CLUB". For most of you, including annikan, jim, lagster - you already know that. You were saying longer club and assuming that you are talking about a longer shot. Although a longer club doesn't always mean a longer shot. However for anyone new or learning- the clarification could help them. For those new to TGM the next question is " Why more open the longer the shot?" Because as again, most know by now- the more compression, the more distance the clubhead travels and the more the face closes while the ball is on the face. Now the real question is- if on the longer shots the face closes enough while the ball is on the face- to make alterations in the amount the clubface is open at impact fix for horizontal hinging, then how long of a distance is the ball traveling on the clubface/clubhead? And how does that integrate with the Golfing Machine concept that the ball always leaves at right angles to the clubface- i.e. that the return flow is so fast that the ball doesn't ride on the clubhead/face long enough for the down and out vector of the clubhead to influence the initial direction of the ball? Mike O.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Good point!!!! A chip shot with a 5 iron would br different than a full shot in this regard.

And such is the genius of Mr. Kelley. This guy must have been amazing. Shame that he missed out on the internet . . . or even more a shame for us.

[lagster]

Getting the CLUBFACE, LEFT HAND GRIP, and #3 PRESSURE POINT properly aligned at FIX, as one takes one's grip, is very important.
What procedure do some of you use to accomplish this?