insight from hitters please

[rvwink]

Planning to buy a new driver. Uncertain as to whether my excellent clubmaker, who is in fact a swinger. can accurately relate to what will make this particular hitter happy. After shortening my shaft a bit, weight needs to be added to get my swingweight back up to d4. My clubmaker thinks 207 grams should be my maximum clubhead weight and the rest of the weight should go in the hosel. My theory is that hitters, with their shorter more explosive swings, might be able to efficiently handle heavier clubhead weights? Any hitters with experience with shorter shafts and heavier heads care to share?

[mattsdad]

Planning to buy a new driver. Uncertain as to whether my excellent clubmaker, who is in fact a swinger. can accurately relate to what will make this particular hitter happy. After shortening my shaft a bit, weight needs to be added to get my swingweight back up to d4. My clubmaker thinks 207 grams should be my maximum clubhead weight and the rest of the weight should go in the hosel. My theory is that hitters, with their shorter more explosive swings, might be able to efficiently handle heavier clubhead weights? Any hitters with experience with shorter shafts and heavier heads care to share?

Sorry, not a Hitter, but I am a hobbyist clubmaker with a fair bit of experience. I am curious why your clubmaker thinks 207 grams should be the maximum clubhead weight with the rest of the weight going in the hosel. Adding weight in the hosel is effectively the same (from a swingweight perspective) as adding weight to the head. If weight is going to be added to the head to get it to 207 grams, and further weight is going to be put in the hosel, it would make more sense to put it all in the head. Unless I am missing something here.

Also, you may have already taken this into consideration, but adding weight to the head will make the shaft play softer unless the shaft is tipped to compensate. This would apply moreso to Hitters due to the nature of a Hitter's loading.

[golfgnome]

Planning to buy a new driver. Uncertain as to whether my excellent clubmaker, who is in fact a swinger. can accurately relate to what will make this particular hitter happy. After shortening my shaft a bit, weight needs to be added to get my swingweight back up to d4. My clubmaker thinks 207 grams should be my maximum clubhead weight and the rest of the weight should go in the hosel. My theory is that hitters, with their shorter more explosive swings, might be able to efficiently handle heavier clubhead weights? Any hitters with experience with shorter shafts and heavier heads care to share?

Hitters or swingers should determine what feels best for them and produces the best launch angle and spin rate. Just because you are a hitter does not mean that you necessarily need heavier or stiffer.

Another misconception is swingweight. You can make any club any swingweight you want. In fact, many hitters I have fit prefer the weight in the handle (balanced certified) or the shaft more than in the head. Because hitters should be more deliberate in startdown pushing the primary lever, heavier sometimes is better, but not necessarily in the head.

Also, when you put weight in the hosel you change the center of gravity dramatically. In fact I have never heard of weighting the hosel as a good thing.

I can help you find a qualified fitter in your area who can help YOU find the right club for YOU. Let me know where you live.

[6bmike]

Hitters or swingers should determine what feels best for them and produces the best launch angle and spin rate. Just because you are a hitter does not mean that you necessarily need heavier or stiffer.

Another misconception is swingweight. You can make any club any swingweight you want. In fact, many hitters I have fit prefer the weight in the handle (balanced certified) or the shaft more than in the head. Because hitters should be more deliberate in startdown pushing the primary lever, heavier sometimes is better, but not necessarily in the head.

Also, when you put weight in the hosel you change the center of gravity dramatically. In fact I have never heard of weighting the hosel as a good thing.

I can help you find a qualified fitter in your area who can help YOU find the right club for YOU. Let me know where you live.

For a Hitter, then, would a (dare I say) stiff butt (cut it out) shaft to drive against be better than a soft butt with a stiff tipped shaft? (everyone go to their room- right now).

Golfsmith was the first to add weight to the hosel that I know of as a cheap way to offer head weight changes. Wishon does the same thing and knows his stuff.

[rvwink]

Wow!! I love the precision with which Jeff Hull worked on his golf game. (drilling to keep your head perfectly still, impressed me alot.) Another thing I loved was how you got out of results and focused on process by just dealing with what you could control, i.e. hitting down to low point.

The driver I want to have built is a 525 GRT made by Wishon Golf. They offer a hosel weight of up to 9 grams. (It represents a way that a club maker can get to the swingweight he desires by adding weight cleanly and out of sight.) Because the weight is above the clubhead, I assume it affects the moi of the club to a slightly lesser extent than it would if the weight was on the rear sole of the clubhead.

My plan is to have Wishon hand pick the lightest driver clubhead they have, (Maybe 195 instead of 202). By cutting my shaft down to 44.5 additional weight would need to be replaced. To get to my clubmaker's 207 target from 195, I would have 12 grams of lead tape weight to increase my driver's MOI by a few hundred points and raise the ball flight modestly. The rest of the weight would be dropped into the hosel. You said it was what feels good, and frankly my current driver has a 209 gram clubhead which feels fine. Maybe I should add additional lead tape and see when it stops feeling good? What is the heaviest driver clubhead you have built Jeff, which felt good to the golfer?

[rvwink]

I am curious why your clubmaker thinks 207 grams should be the maximum clubhead weight with the rest of the weight going in the hosel. Adding weight in the hosel is effectively the same (from a swingweight perspective) as adding weight to the head. If weight is going to be added to the head to get it to 207 grams, and further weight is going to be put in the hosel, it would make more sense to put it all in the head. Unless I am missing something here.

Also, you may have already taken this into consideration, but adding weight to the head will make the shaft play softer unless the shaft is tipped to compensate. This would apply moreso to Hitters due to the nature of a Hitter's loading.

I orginally thought the same way you did, but I recently saw a MOI guide which indicated that weight in the hosel has a modestly lower MOI factor than weight on the rear corner of the club's sole.

I like my clubmaker alot, but I too didn't understand his idea to lower my clubhead's weight to 207 grams. I was so curious, I started this thread. Thought this was the right forum to ask about a hitter's club setups. (Interesting to learn that other hitters like back weighting, which I do as well.)

My shaft's swingspeed range is 89 to 99 mph, and my swing averages around 92 mph. Would you think the extra 7 mph would be sufficient leeway to handle the extra 12 grams of clubhead weight?

[mattsdad]

I orginally thought the same way you did, but I recently saw a MOI guide which indicated that weight in the hosel has a modestly lower MOI factor than weight on the rear corner of the club's sole.

I like my clubmaker alot, but I too didn't understand his idea to lower my clubhead's weight to 207 grams. I was so curious, I started this thread. Thought this was the right forum to ask about a hitter's club setups. (Interesting to learn that other hitters like back weighting, which I do as well.)

My shaft's swingspeed range is 89 to 99 mph, and my swing averages around 92 mph. Would you think the extra 7 mph would be sufficient leeway to handle the extra 12 grams of clubhead weight?

First of all, I would be surprised if Wishon would be able to hand pick a head as light as 195 grams. The spec is 202 grams, and typical tolerances are +/- 2 grams. Assuming you wanted a total head weight of 209 grams, I would get Wishon to hand select the heaviest head they have and then reduce the amount required in the weight port and still achieve 209 grams. There may be a theoretical increase in MOI by adding weight to the outside of the head, but it would be insignificant in the scheme of things.

As for the shaft, it would be best to ask your clubmaker for his opinion since he should have a good idea of the shaft load you apply. Assuming the shaft is already cut to length, you can still tip it if necessary and add a shaft extension to get it back to the required length.

FWIW, I am a Swinger and prefer my drivers to be backweighted with about 35 grams.

[rvwink]

If I use your assumption that the potential head weight swing is only 2 grams, then the head from Wishon would weight 200 grams even. I would be able to add about 9 grams to the rear of the club. I think that amount of weight, if positioned carefully, might add an extra 3/8ths of a degree of loft to the club plus a little more forgiveness as well. That would allow me to buy a 10.5 lofted driver instead of the 11 degree driver I am contemplating presently.

While I respect your opinion, and my clubmaker feels exactly the way you do, I still might do it. It is just about trying to maximize ones golf equipment, and I like the idea of gaining a bit more MOI in my new driver which has a relatively classic shape. I agree the stakes are by no means huge, but success is often in the small details.

[mattsdad]

If I use your assumption that the potential head weight swing is only 2 grams, then the head from Wishon would weight 200 grams even. I would be able to add about 9 grams to the rear of the club. I think that amount of weight, if positioned carefully, might add an extra 3/8ths of a degree of loft to the club plus a little more forgiveness as well. That would allow me to buy a 10.5 lofted driver instead of the 11 degree driver I am contemplating presently.

While I respect your opinion, and my clubmaker feels exactly the way you do, I still might do it. It is just about trying to maximize ones golf equipment, and I like the idea of gaining a bit more MOI in my new driver which has a relatively classic shape. I agree the stakes are by no means huge, but success is often in the small details.

Fair enough. There is absolutely nothing wrong with how you want to do it and lead tape makes it easier to change the weight in the future. Good luck with the new stick.

[rvwink]

Another misconception is swingweight. You can make any club any swingweight you want. In fact, many hitters I have fit prefer the weight in the handle (balanced certified) or the shaft more than in the head. Because hitters should be more deliberate in startdown pushing the primary lever, heavier sometimes is better, but not necessarily in the head.

It took me a little time to put your plan to work. But when I read your post a second time, I figured it out. I chose a heavier shaft to reduce the need for hosel weight. That moved a little extra weight higher in the shaft nearer to where it acts as a "primary lever". Also the chosen shaft, Pershing has an abnormally high balance point to begin with. .

Thanks for your help.

Rv