As usual, what I uncover most during research is discovering my own confusion.
I finished reading a Physics article on the subject because I wanted to find out what advantage(s) are gained by Sergio, Hogan and many more like them who form an acute angle between their Left Arms and Clubshafts at the Top of their Backswings. They seem to do so at the expense of a Level Right Wrist. This topic has emerged so much these past few days and I have this unsatisfying feeling that something has been missed. Dismissing one or other alignments as “not the best way” doesn’t explain why they do so. So rather than criticize them, I spent just a short time trying to uncover the mechanical advantage to this seemingly mechanical disadvantage.
I just recently discovered the word "Torque". I’ve heard the term before but I honestly have never had the need to understand the Physics of Torque. Torque is Maximum when the Force is at 90 degrees to the lever. And believe it or not, this led to Centrifugal Force which led to slings and Catapult engines and their design strategy. Bla, Bla, Bla.
But anyway, here goes first assumptions.
By decreasing the Angle between the Left Arm and Clubshaft at the Top of the Swing, they delay the Throwout Action (onset) of Centrifugal Force and gain more time to reach their maximum hand speed. So, the acute angle helps them achieve a Delayed Release and Max Hand Speed which may lead to higher Clubhead Speeds.
Anyway, it’s a thought. Can anyone (except Bucket) shed some light on the subject?
I do not know if this post should be here and do apologise in advance.
I am always puzzled that the angle between the left arm and clubshaft can be an acute angle and would think this is an optical illusion.
If one were to hold a book in front at eye level, and imagine you are looking at a golfer face on; the bottom horizontal edge is the left arm and the left edge is the clubshaft. Now tilt the book away from you about the bottom edge (left arm) such that the left edge (clubshaft) is on a swingplane of 45deg. The angle between the left arm and shaft is still 90deg, OK. Now rotate the book about the bottom right corner (left shoulder) horizontally say 30deg. The angle between left arm and clubshaft now appears acute to your eyes...optical illusion.
I believe it is simple.The LOAD on the vertical left wrist hinge pin ,-and consequently the right wrist bend,is substantial.This is particularly evident in swingers using snap loading.
In a previous post,elsewhere on this forum,there was a lot of debate about right wrist bend and cocked right wrist(referencing Sergio).
When checking out the amount the left wrist can cock and the right wrist can bend -DO NOT do it "statically".You simply can't get your left wrist to maximum cocked position unless you load it.
Try this;
Put your left forearm out in front of you,elbow against your side ,palm down,make a fist ,thumb out to the right as if you were holding a club parallel to the ground .Cock your wrist -now pull on your left thumb toward you -your wrist will cock at least a fraction more.
Place the palm of your right hand against a wall,fingers pointing to the right so the wrist is bent at the maximum you can naturally achieve by just bending,now lean your body to the right -the angle between the forearm and wrist reduces,way beyond what you can achieve statically.
In both cases you have have achieved the maximum angle you can achieve by LOADING. Call it load ,call it torque, call it reduced angle-call it what you want, (I am not one to go into detailed Physics like other forums -Homer used terms he felt were best-I'm not going in the centrifugal/centripetal hole).
As in a lot of the book ,you don't get the true picture until you MOVE-I suspect Homer suggests doing short strokes first for a reason MONITORING.
In the full swing this is difficult -so we translate mechanics into FEEL,and the feel of 100% LAG PRESSURE in SWINGING will cock that left wrist more(for most people) than you can just by moving your hand.
I do not know if this post should be here and do apologise in advance.
I am always puzzled that the angle between the left arm and clubshaft can be an acute angle and would think this is an optical illusion.
If one were to hold a book in front at eye level, and imagine you are looking at a golfer face on; the bottom horizontal edge is the left arm and the left edge is the clubshaft. Now tilt the book away from you about the bottom edge (left arm) such that the left edge (clubshaft) is on a swingplane of 45deg. The angle between the left arm and shaft is still 90deg, OK. Now rotate the book about the bottom right corner (left shoulder) horizontally say 30deg. The angle between left arm and clubshaft now appears acute to your eyes...optical illusion.
I agree. The camera angle can create illusions and it is sometimes difficult to measure angles from them. Often, many pictures from varying angles are needed to get a better measurement.
I believe it is simple.The LOAD on the vertical left wrist hinge pin ,-and consequently the right wrist bend,is substantial.This is particularly evident in swingers using snap loading.
In a previous post,elsewhere on this forum,there was a lot of debate about right wrist bend and cocked right wrist(referencing Sergio).
When checking out the amount the left wrist can cock and the right wrist can bend -DO NOT do it "statically".You simply can't get your left wrist to maximum cocked position unless you load it.
Try this;
Put your left forearm out in front of you,elbow against your side ,palm down,make a fist ,thumb out to the right as if you were holding a club parallel to the ground .Cock your wrist -now pull on your left thumb toward you -your wrist will cock at least a fraction more.
Place the palm of your right hand against a wall,fingers pointing to the right so the wrist is bent at the maximum you can naturally achieve by just bending,now lean your body to the right -the angle between the forearm and wrist reduces,way beyond what you can achieve statically.
In both cases you have have achieved the maximum angle you can achieve by LOADING. Call it load ,call it torque, call it reduced angle-call it what you want, (I am not one to go into detailed Physics like other forums -Homer used terms he felt were best-I'm not going in the centrifugal/centripetal hole).
As in a lot of the book ,you don't get the true picture until you MOVE-I suspect Homer suggests doing short strokes first for a reason MONITORING.
In the full swing this is difficult -so we translate mechanics into FEEL,and the feel of 100% LAG PRESSURE in SWINGING will cock that left wrist more(for most people) than you can just by moving your hand.
Daryl, you are back with a VENGEANCE!!!
Hi Neil,
It's just my Winter Golf Starvation period. OCD. I've been laughing outloud at some of the things Bucket and you guys are saying and my Wife looks at me like I'm a nut.
Anyway, I agree with what you're saying. The force of Loading can Cock the Wrist(s) to a greater extent than static Cocking. And I agree that Motion adds another dimension to each component.
Do you think, that a Late Release is caused by the mechanically more acute angle between Left Arm and Shaft (or something else?), or is Delayed Release simply a decision the Golfer makes and then merely prevents (somehow?) Throwout from occurring at its normal place.
I guess what I'm trying to ask is; Is there a relationship between Cocking Angle and Release Point in un-manipulated Swings?
It's just my Winter Golf Starvation period. OCD. I've been laughing outloud at some of the things Bucket and you guys are saying and my Wife looks at me like I'm a nut.
Anyway, I agree with what you're saying. The force of Loading can Cock the Wrist(s) to a greater extent than static Cocking. And I agree that Motion adds another dimension to each component.
Do you think, that a Late Release is caused by the mechanically more acute angle between Left Arm and Shaft (or something else?), or is Delayed Release simply a decision the Golfer makes and then merely prevents (somehow?) Throwout from occurring at its normal place.
I guess what I'm trying to ask is; Is there a relationship between Cocking Angle and Release Point in un-manipulated Swings?
I think-just let it happen.
Regardless of the amount of wristcock,wrist angle-whatever ,if you use automatic or non automatic release -it's all about intention .Decide you're going to manually(non automatic) release ,then roll -or just let it go.
So, to answer the question,-no ,it is what works for you .
I've been laughing outloud . . . my Wife looks at me like I'm a nut.
Hmmmmmm . . . a grown man laughing randomly out loud at a computer screen . . .are you doing any random rocking as well? Sounds like Mrs. Daryl could be accurate in her diagnosis. The slope is slippery . . . and leads to great wailing and nashing of teeth.
If a mid-70's vintage van shows up at your home air brushed with Barney riding a unicorn with Elvis in the distant background holding hands with a scantily clad mermaid with abnormally large cannolli's riding a chariot of fire with bumper sticker that says "yeah that's right I picked it . . . and I'm going to eat it too."
I would strongly suggest not opening the door if the gentleman knocks . . . it's probably a CERTAIN member of our forum that has been attempting to "stay away" . . . but is having serious emotional problems and internal strife (ironically that begin with the symptoms you happen to be experiencing as well).
Stop the snowball from rolling while you still can. If you can't get help here . . .get help somewhere.
I tried just one time to explain to her what was so funny, and she said: "That's it! You've lost your grasp. We're going out this weekend." So now I won't be around Saturday. And she moved 2 of my clubs to one of the closets in the Foyer. She grabbed the Dowel and asked; What's this stick for? I replied: "Put-that-back"; "please." She did. She shook her head. Go figure.
And she moved 2 of my clubs to one of the closets in the Foyer. She grabbed the Dowel and asked; What's this stick for? I replied: "Put-that-back"; "please." She did. She shook her head. Go figure.
Linear Mode
