Guys and Gals ... forgive me. I'm a bit upset. I can't understand why so many generous decent people from this forum waste their time on GEA. Yes, GEA is where I first heard of Yoda and Ted but I would have stumbled on it somehow. It hardly seems worth it for Ted or Bagger or any others to go on and get baited by that windbag George Hibbard or others. I admit to buying GH book Golf's Critical details.....I probably have at least 30 golf instruction books (beside the yellow book)and ol' George's book doesn't make it on the book shelf... It has served as a not very handsome coaster and a functional door stop.
This has gone on for quite awhile and the latest thread on "best instruction ever received" was an example of baiting brought to a new level. Apparently, one of those baited finally snapped. Most of us, when presented with an opportunity to direct someone with sincere interest or curiosity will mention lynnblakegolf.com to them anyway. I don't see the need for all the abuse at that place. It used to be a cordial site to visit...no more. It is time to leave it to the "no-it-alls" who try something new each week. What do ya' think?
Post there for the people who do appreciate it, not for those who don't. As long as there is a large group of people there are going to be disagreements. Things over there usually have a harder edge to them during winter months.
Last edited by stilltrying : 02-26-2006 at 10:15 AM.
It's no surprise that TGM is viewed by the rest of the golfing community as the "lunatic fringe". For instructors who know better, TGM is the biggest single threat to their business because:
1.) They can't dispute anything about it, other than the writing style.
2.) They are overwhelmed by it's complexity, so they don't attempt to try and understand it.
It's part and parcel of the thread Lynn started on being the "Irrepressible Revolutionary" and as such, TGM has earned it's rightful place in the public stage.
There is a lot of work to do to translate Homers work for the simplicty buffs and it presents a huge opportunity. But there are also problems internally because even GSED's get some of the basics wrong. For instance, I watched a commercial video of a GSED recently who prescribed the sweetspot turning around the hosel, and let's not even discuss Hitting. So there are challenges internally and externally, but that's why this forum and website exist. To clear the fog, to make the messages more understandable, and most of all to help bring power and precision to everyone's game.
I don't post much on other forums, but when there is significant fog showing up and TGM is associated with it, I'll jump in with both feet and attempt to help change the weather. Problems occur when book references are thrown around to validate a concept. Book references are great on this site because we are students. But for the rest of the world it's a turnoff to golfers, and a threat to instructors who don't have much exposure to Homer.
Many liken TGM to a cult and according to the definition, they are right. But they don't acknowledge that they to are part of a cult and probably aren't even aware of it. See (5) below.
Merriam Webster Definition -
Main Entry: cult
Pronunciation: 'k<
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: French & Latin; French culte, from Latin cultus care, adoration, from colere to cultivate -- more at WHEEL
1 : formal religious veneration : WORSHIP
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4 : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator
5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion.
Do cults become mainstream? There are many, many examples. Everyone has a belief system concerning the golfswing. For some it's Hogan, for others Moe Norman, the rest of the world is looking to tour players and their associated instructors as holding the keys.
Regardless of where you hang your hat, there is a belief system involved and any time that belief system is threatened, there will be resistance to change. I think Ted is doing a terrific job in dispelling perceptions about TGM that other instructors are throwing about. If left unanswered, TGM will remain in the dark ages, and the lunatic fringe will never do an about-face to reverse the order on the public stage.
It will start here, then with tour players willing to endorse TGM, then on the Golf Channel, then in mainstream publications, then on forums, then in books/DVD's, etc. On and on, "probably endlessly" and not necessarily in that order.
I think you would ask those who seem to react to TGM posting per-se they are reacting to either the individual posting or historical posters.
6 years ago when there were few places TGM was mentioned on the few forums, it was really the posters who created the bad will so to speak. They would denounce everything and everyone or they would insist that you had to speak TGM only when addressing an issue, etc. When asked for details they got more TGM terms, etc. Back then Chuck's was the only forum it was really safe to go on and not expect to be atacked.
This is unfortunate but much of that has continued in various forms across other forums which is something we will have to live with and try to do a better job in the future to prevent this conduct from slowing the word to get out.
For example most people believe that TGM is a particular instruction style/method that is unique unto itself.
I know I have was a closet TGM person since the 80s till early 2002. The few times that I would reference TGM it was always hammered, so someone gave it a bad rap along the way.
the I think Ted is doing a terrific job in dispelling perceptions about TGM that other instructors are throwing about. If left unanswered, TGM will remain in the dark ages, and the lunatic fringe will never do an about-face to reverse the order on the public stage.
It will start here, then with tour players willing to endorse TGM, then on the Golf Channel, then in mainstream publications, then on forums, then in books/DVD's, etc. On and on, "probably endlessly" and not necessarily in that order.
Bagger
Bagger...I've just quoted the end of your post because that is what I want to discuss and I don't necessarily disagree with any of it. I'm just so angry, I have to vent. Ted is absolutely doing a wonderful job. I've seen Ted twice as a result of a post by "dukenasty" about 1 1/2 yrs ago GEA, so I understand that it can have some value in getting the word out. But that was also before this site existed. And what does Ted get for his generous sharing of the golf swing? A throwdown from some 65 yr. old 4.3 index (probably from 5500 yds).... some nut actually challenged Ted to a golf match. Can anyone say 10 and 8. (I'm guessing the next challenge will be from that same nut telling me no way he looses 10-8, what do I want to bet...why do we deal with these fringe lunatics?)
But I don't think GEA forum is going to get TGM on the golf channel, nor is it going to get touring pros to endorse it. I believe anyone who is going on GEA should understand it isn't the nice place it used to be AND liberal use of the 'ignore' function is suggested. If people can't be polite and appreciate and the quality of free instruction being offered 'ignore' them. I'm done with GEA for at least a long time.
Unless I'm mistaken, the Links at Shirley school in Long Island, NY
was comprised of almost, if not all, GEA'rs. So posting there must be doing some good.
Unless I'm mistaken, the Links at Shirley school in Long Island, NY
was comprised of almost, if not all, GEA'rs. So posting there must be doing some good.
I was the one who initiated it(something I'm still proud of) from reading about Brian's results after visiting Ted on GEA. I think most of us were from GEA.
As far as George, I believe he fears for his livelihood. The others are just trollers. You learn to ignore them.
OK, here comes a confession: I thought you guys were a bunch of kooks three or four months ago. You all spoke in gibberish and were adamant to a point of insanity. I read posts by TGM people all over the place and they all seemed the same at first -- you're all a bunch of loons.
Then I read some more. And more. I always kept my mind open, even though I thought you guys were a bunch of nuts. Then I figured out that perhaps the only reason I thought TGM folks were looney was because of the language barrier they were creating. Homer created a language and definition base for golf instructors, but the rest of the world didn't learn this. To me, it is the job and the duty perhaps, of every TGM AI or devotee to explain the definitions to the general public. Better yet, just talk plain. Remove the barrier altogether.
See, now I don't think all TGM guys are nuts -- I have a working translator, which gets better every day. It's what I'm known for and how I am wired. It made me a good reporter and makes me a much better teacher. So maybe we should look at ourselves as well.
On the other hand, there are a few guys over at GEA who will always be the rear-end of a mule. Hibbard is one to me. I've seen his stuff on the Internet for years, and he always ends up wearing out his welcome. You should see of the posts on the old Google groups. I actually like to wind him and those other guys up and watch them spin I don't post as Vandal over there, either.
Edit: I just went through the majority of that thread and it appears that Yodasolo is banned for life. I have no idea what happened over there, but I do know the George Hibbard is a fool.
I don't post as Vandal over there, either.
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