Fanning revisited (again!)

[ChrisNZ]

A couple of questions about fanning the trail (right for righthanders) forearm in start-up, assuming the trail forearm is onplane at address.

1. Is fanning and then folding the trail elbow a purely sequenced motion - does one fan to the limit of fanning, and then fold, or do they overlap somewhat?

2. Ideally, does the trail forearm stay onplane as long as one is only fanning - ie once folding starts does the trail elbow start to go underplane?

3. How much movement is there in the trail elbow during fanning and in which direction? For example I can fan (and trace) with my trail elbow pretty much dead still, or with it staying level to its address position and moving back parallel to the plane line - I'm not sure if (anatomically and with a golf like motion) I can trace and have the elbow move up the plane.

Any thoughts?

Chris

[Yoda]

A couple of questions about fanning the trail (right for righthanders) forearm in start-up, assuming the trail forearm is onplane at address.

1. Is fanning and then folding the trail elbow a purely sequenced motion - does one fan to the limit of fanning, and then fold, or do they overlap somewhat?

2. Ideally, does the trail forearm stay onplane as long as one is only fanning - ie once folding starts does the trail elbow start to go underplane?

3. How much movement is there in the trail elbow during fanning and in which direction? For example I can fan (and trace) with my trail elbow pretty much dead still, or with it staying level to its address position and moving back parallel to the plane line - I'm not sure if (anatomically and with a golf like motion) I can trace and have the elbow move up the plane.

Here we go, Chris, in the order of your questions:

1. With the Punch and Pitch Major Basic Strokes, the Fanning Right Forearm Motion begins immediately in Start Up. Never at any moment is there even a hint of the Push Basic Stroke and its Linear Right Forearm Motion. The Hands move in an Arc around the Right Elbow -- they do not stay between the Elbow and the Ball -- and the Elbow folds only as Extensor Action and the alignments of the Right Forearm Flying Wedge permit.

2. Fanning and 'folding' are independent concepts. Normally, they occur virtually simultaneously during Start Up -- again, as Extensor Action permits -- and are not mutually exclusive. However, as Miller Barber has amply demonstrated throughout his career, it is possible to delay Fanning and thereby maintain the Right Elbow On Plane -- and thus the Forearm On Plane -- for an extraordinary length of time.

3. In Start Up, Extensor Action assures that the Three-Dimensional -- Up, Back and In -- Right Forearm Takeaway will be as 'wide' as possible. In fact, this width is limited only by the 'leash' of the Left Arm's Checkrein Action and the aligments of the Right Forearm Flying Wedge. The Right Elbow will move with this Motion and, of course, in its direction. If you attempt to keep your Right Elbow stationary as you Fan, you will inhibit your Right Shoulder's move toward the Plane. Which is fine in Short Shots where you wish to minimize the Pivot Motion. For example, no less than Ben Hogan used to "rest" his Right Elbow on his Right Hip and use it as a "pivot point" to "reduce the margin of error" in Chip Shots. But remember, your Backstroke will stop once your Right Elbow has become fully Bent, and this action is not Compatible with full Pivot Strokes.

[annikan skywalker]

Yoda,


Another ...Hall of Fame Post...

Thanx!!!!


AS

[ChrisNZ]

Thanks Yoda!

Here we go, Chris, in the order of your questions:
ng and 'folding' are independent concepts. Normally, they occur virtually simultaneously during Start Up -- again, as Extensor Action permits -- and are not mutually exclusive. However, as Miller Barber has amply demonstrated throughout his career, it is possible to delay Fanning and thereby maintain the Right Elbow On Plane -- and thus the Forearm On Plane -- for an extraordinary length of time.

Does Barber's stroke hint at the push basic stroke? It's one of my guilty secrets that I'm not really familiar with Barber's stroke except for knowing that it was famous for being loopy! If you don't fan straight away it must be push basic (or at least hinting at it), right?

Also, is it the case that as soon as the right elbow folds, for all intents and purposes the right forearm must be off plane. And in this case, does it mean that really the right forearm only traces the plane line for a very short interval in the backstroke?

3. In Start Up, Extensor Action assures that the Three-Dimensional -- Up, Back and In -- Right Forearm Takeaway will be as 'wide' as possible. In fact, this width is limited only by the 'leash' of the Left Arm's Checkrein Action and the aligments of the Right Forearm Flying Wedge. The Right Elbow will move with this Motion and, of course, in its direction.

Is the right elbow's action 3 dimensional from start up? Or is it more of a sideways only motion to begin with?

Thanks again for your help.

Chris

[mb6606]

Here is a link to Photos of Miller Barber
http://asafgolf.free.fr/images/golf/...r_profilar.jpg

[tongzilla]

This late fanning or delaying of the Startup Swivel may be a sign of something very desirable for the Swinger.

[12 piece bucket]

This late fanning or delaying of the Startup Swivel may be a sign of something very desirable for the Swinger.

This is latent with something??? Watchu gettin' at man???

[12 piece bucket]

Here is a link to Photos of Miller Barber
http://asafgolf.free.fr/images/golf/...r_profilar.jpg

Nice pic . . . Looks like Straight Line Delivery Path Hit to me.

[Yoda]

Here is a link to Photos of Miller Barber
http://asafgolf.free.fr/images/golf/...r_profilar.jpg

Thanks for the photos, mb. They illustrate my point exactly.

[tongzilla]

Originally Posted by tongzilla

This late fanning or delaying of the Startup Swivel may be a sign of something very desirable for the Swinger.

This is latent with something??? Watchu gettin' at man???

The Lagging Clubhead Takeaway -- the recommended but not mandatory motion for the Swinger -- is often done improperly by those who try to imitate it. They actuate the motion actively with their wrist muscles by bending their left wrist and flattening the right wrist. Although this can look similar to the correctly performed motion, its performance is inferior.

Just to clarify for those still incubating out there, a Lagging Clubhead Takeaway is a takeaway where the Hands lead the Clubhead during Start Up.

There should be no tension in the wrists. It must remain so supple that it can't even move the inertia of a stationary clubhead. Your Pivot Motion (or Right Forearm) should transport the arms and hands, and because of the inertia of the clubhead (not wrists muscles itself), the Hands lead the Clubhead and we get a very slight Bending of the Left Wrist and Flattening of Right Wrist as a by product.

Note that Fanning of the Right Forearm is delayed so long as the Lagging Clubhead Takeaway is still in action. Hence the late Fanning. Players with very supple wrists that has absolutely no inclination to help pick the clubhead up will have a longer period where the Clubhead Lags behind the Hands. Which goes back to my original comment in my last post as to why this might be a sign of something desirable for the Swinger.