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Old 02-17-2006, 11:47 PM
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Is this wrong?
Originally Posted by 6bmike
Hip- take out the slack of the upper body. All strokes start bottom up with Hip motion the key to the pivot- for me

Is this wrong? I see Yoda with a very defined pivot before the right shoulder becomes a backboard to shove off of.
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Old 02-17-2006, 11:53 PM
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Load With the Pivot
Originally Posted by 6bmike

Is this wrong? I see Yoda with a very defined pivot before the right shoulder becomes a backboard to shove off of.
In Pivot Strokes, the Pivot Loads the Lag. Overcoming the initial Clubhead Inertia in the Start Down is a job for the big muscles of the Body.
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Old 02-18-2006, 04:15 PM
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The Hands control the Pivot
Originally Posted by 6bmike
Is this wrong? I see Yoda with a very defined pivot before the right shoulder becomes a backboard to shove off of.
Mike,

Per 6-M-1, the downstroke sequence is always knees, hips, shoulders, right elbow, left wrist uncocking and / or left hand rotation.

But it is the INTENT of bringing the hands down and out on-plane that will ironically bring about this sequence.

Food for thought - you will hardly see a good tennis player getting out of sync in their strokes. Is it any wonder that they focus only on what their hands are doing?

Its hard for most people to accept this line of reasoning until they play a round of tennis, observe their pivot reacting to the hands and then apply this procedure to their golf stroke.

Amateurs who try to trigger the downstroke in the sequence afore mentioned always manage to get it to fire the other way around.

Which brings to mind Mr. Kelley's timeless words, the hands are not educated until they control the pivot - 9-1
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Old 02-18-2006, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by comdpa
Mike,

Per 6-M-1, the downstroke sequence is always knees, hips, shoulders, right elbow, left wrist uncocking and / or left hand rotation.

But it is the INTENT of bringing the hands down and out on-plane that will ironically bring about this sequence.

Food for thought - you will hardly see a good tennis player getting out of sync in their strokes. Is it any wonder that they focus only on what their hands are doing?

Its hard for most people to accept this line of reasoning until they play a round of tennis, observe their pivot reacting to the hands and then apply this procedure to their golf stroke.

Amateurs who try to trigger the downstroke in the sequence afore mentioned always manage to get it to fire the other way around.

Which brings to mind Mr. Kelley's timeless words, the hands are not educated until they control the pivot - 9-1

I think many people need to have the pivot trained to some point before they learn hand controlled pivot. The body might not necesarily react to the hands. For example, a student could move the hands toward the ball by moving the arms independent of the body, thus resulting in very little pivot. Once the pivot is learned, then I think it is easier to learn a hand controlled pivot.

I taught tennis through my college days and for a couple of years after graduating. Some of the students with an athletic background could learn "hand controlled" strokes immediately, but many people had to learn the rotation involved with ground strokes first before having a "hand controlled" stroke. If they didn't they would just move the arms from the shoulder and have an arm-only stroke.

Since the arms can be moved from the shoulder sockets without the trunk rotating, it doesn't mean the body will necessarily respond to the hands when first learning the golf swing.

I agree a hand-controlled golf swing is the way to go, but I don't agree that the body will automatically respond correctly to the hand's movement. I think it has to be trained to do this.
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Old 02-19-2006, 04:38 AM
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Originally Posted by EdStraker
.................
Since the arms can be moved from the shoulder sockets without the trunk rotating, it doesn't mean the body will necessarily respond to the hands when first learning the golf swing.

..................
The trunk is not rotating (or being felt doing nothing) does not necessarily mean it's not doing anything. It appears (to the observor) the body is motionless and doing nothing when pushing against a wall (static muscle contraction).

See for yourself by moving the (lagged) arms "without the trunk rotating" while standing on the ground vs. a rotary chair.
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Yani Tseng Did It Again!
YOU load and sustain the "LAG", during which the "LAW" releases it, ideally beyond impact.
"Sustain (Yang/陽) the lag (Yin/陰)" is "the unification of Ying and Yang" (陰陽合一).
The "LAW" creates the "effect", which is the "motion" or "feel", with the "cause", which is the "intent" or "command".
"Lag" is the secret of golf, passion is the secret of life.
Think as a golfer, execute like a robot.
Rotate, twist, spin, turn.
Bend the shaft.
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Old 02-19-2006, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by bts
The trunk is not rotating (or being felt doing nothing) does not necessarily mean it's not doing anything. It appears (to the observor) the body is motionless and doing nothing when pushing against a wall (static muscle contraction).

See for yourself by moving the (lagged) arms "without the trunk rotating" while standing on the ground vs. a rotary chair.
bts,

What EdStraker is referring to here is the arms moving across the chest (from their point of origin, the shoulders) with no rotary motion of the trunk.

Remember, the shoulders are a dual agent, being part of both the Power Package and the Pivot. Therefore, arm induced shoulder motion does not necessarily mean the Pivot is involved. 7-13
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Last edited by comdpa : 02-19-2006 at 07:56 AM.
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