#3 04-26-2007, 12:13 AM nuke99 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 432 also.. how far the elbow highly depends on the plane . the more upright the plane the more the elbow will need "fly" on the top. but this is relative to how your body setup.. the more bent over, the more your elbow will need to stay close to the body . so the Plane is the boss. and I think... if i am not wrong.. Elbow plane is the best for what you are asking for. __________________ God :God is love. Latest incubator: Finally appreciate why Hogan wrote 19 pages on GRIP. I bet he could write another 40 pages. nuke99 View Public Profile Send a private message to nuke99 Find all posts by nuke99