B.L.,
Was the "CHOP" down the "turned shoulder plane" (AS YOU PRECIEVE IT) @ the target line or was it at something else? Was the hands "CHOP", straight line on plane (AS VIEWED FACE ON) or arcing (CIRCULAR) on plane?
Jay
I've shot video of my swing for years and the vast majority of the time, I'm dead on the TSP without any downstroke shifts. I haven't done any video lately because most of my practice is out on the course, but the procedure I use is:
From the end, the right palm stays flat up against the plane, left hand down.
I use the aiming point procedure and attempt to direct lag pressure in a straight line delivery path to the aiming point. The actual "point" is on the low point plane line and it's location depends on the club. For instance with wedges my aiming point is about 3 to 4 inches in front (target line) of the outer circumference of the ball. That's where I want to take the chop without feeling a need to manually roll #3.
I've started taking the left hand (my focus), flat against the plane much deeper recently and I like the results. It still surprises me that I can attempt to keep palms against the plane very deep into the swing and get an automatic "snap" (A very descriptive term for an automatic and fast left wrist roll) that sends the ball on a laser trajectory. I know all of the mechanics behind this, but it happens so fast that there isn't anything I can do but aim and hold on.
I overheard Ted Fort one day during a lesson. He said "as long as the hands are rolling and the pivot keeps moving through impact, it's very difficult to bend the left wrist". In this case, the hands roll so quickly there doesn't "seem to be" any way for the left wrist to break down and I get a nice horizontal hinge motion and feel.
From my perspective, once the hands are on their way to the aiming point, the only thing left is to continue tracing the baseline of the plane into follow-through and complete the finish.
I'm not too excited about shooting a video because as history has shown, what seems as if, usually isn't. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see a circle delivery path and sweep release. I have some extra time this week, so I'll shoot a video and let you know what I see.
__________________
Bagger
1-H "Because of questions of all kinds, reams of additional detail must be made available - but separately, and probably endlessly." Homer Kelly
Last edited by Bagger Lance : 07-03-2007 at 05:23 PM.
I use the aiming point procedure and attempt to direct lag pressure in a straight line delivery path to the aiming point. The actual "point" is on the low point plane line and it's location depends on the club. For instance with wedges my aiming point is about 3 to 4 inches in front (target line) of the outer circumference of the ball.
Bagger, i found this point confusing. How do you aim at something underneath the ground?
Bagger, i found this point confusing. How do you aim at something underneath the ground?
I think of two lines on the surface of the ground. The primary line is the target line or base of the plane line. We all visualize this line from putt to drive.
The second line is the low point line and it's approximately half an inch outside of the target line.
The 4 sides of a plane extend to infinity in all directions. When we first make contact with the ball, we are contacting it "up plane" at separation the clubhead has moved "down plane" towards low point, below the ground. This is why we emphasis an inside/out impact.
If the ground were water and the plane was a flat sheet of metal, the base of the plane is where it intersects the surface of the water. If there was a horizontal line drawn on the plane half an inch below the water, you would see it just outside the surface line.
To see the low point plane line you need a visual reference on the surface of the ground. That reference line is within an inch of the plane baseline and just outside of it.
If you have the book, Homer made some drawings depicting these plane lines.
Hope that helps.
__________________
Bagger
1-H "Because of questions of all kinds, reams of additional detail must be made available - but separately, and probably endlessly." Homer Kelly
Last edited by Bagger Lance : 07-04-2007 at 09:02 AM.
Bagger thanks for the nice explanation of plane. I understand the plane it's the visual reference of the low point i'm having trouble grasping.
When i use aiming point i pick a point on the baseline of the plane and try to hit down and out through that. What i don't get is lowpoint is outside the baseline but as you say also further down. So surely any point outside the baseline that you pick on the ground isn't on plane?
Bagger thanks for the nice explanation of plane. I understand the plane it's the visual reference of the low point i'm having trouble grasping.
When i use aiming point i pick a point on the baseline of the plane and try to hit down and out through that. What i don't get is lowpoint is outside the baseline but as you say also further down. So surely any point outside the baseline that you pick on the ground isn't on plane?
Hope i'm making sense,
Danny
The key thing to remember is that, unless impact is at low point, the ground isn't where the base of the plane is. The base of the plane is under the ground; an on-plane downswing is down, out, and forward, until lowpoint. Since the plane is tilted, as it's going down, it's also going out. After it passes through the ground, it's still going out. So the actual base of the plane will be outside the target line in most cases.
i think i used the word baseline when it wasn't appropriate. What i really meant is the line where the plane intersects the ground (whatever its called ).
Anyway i really do understand this plane mallarcky... honest ...that low point is outside the target line etc... But what i don't understand is; as lowpoint is further out but also down. With an iron it will be lower than the ground. As the ground is not transparent you can't see it, so how do you pick a spot on the low point to aim at?
Do a search on aiming point. It can only be found by experiment because each player uses a different plane angle, hand speed, pulley size, release type, etc and it is also different for each club.
In general, shorter clubs are further forward of the ball and longer clubs nearer. If you have the book, reference 2-C-1 and 6-E-2.
__________________
Bagger
1-H "Because of questions of all kinds, reams of additional detail must be made available - but separately, and probably endlessly." Homer Kelly
Bagger thanks for your valiant attempts to help me understand. I read all the posts, i've seen the pics in the book. But i still can't understand how you can aim your hands to a point on the low point plane line, when it's underground and you can't see it.
I have some extra time this week, so I'll shoot a video 
and let you know what I see.
).
...that low point is outside the target line etc... But what i don't understand is; as lowpoint is further out but also down. With an iron it will be lower than the ground. As the ground is not transparent you can't see it, so how do you pick a spot on the low point to aim at?
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