#17 08-24-2012, 12:17 PM MizunoJoe Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 719 Originally Posted by Mike O OB and others - here again IF YOU DO NOT DEFINE YOUR TERMS - confusion will result. Grip Rotation IS NOT "Manipulation". Re the Yoda quote in post #54, "Hand Manipulation is accomplished at Impact Fix". Yoda is wrong? MizunoJoe View Public Profile Send a private message to MizunoJoe Find all posts by MizunoJoe